Where are the synergies?

[dandc]

Post-CA and BoB, where are the synergies between nids and GSC? I'm trying really hard to piece together all the info from you lucky folks who can play more regularly than me (basically stealing your ideas), but there has been so much info of late it has been hard to absorb.

From what I can tell from the many threads, hormogaunts, mawlocs, swarmlord and hive guard are worth taking now, possibly exocrines too, and genestealers are still good. Is that right? So where are the gaps that GSC post-CA should be filling? If you ran a list based on those nid units, what GSC would be needed?

[mule]

Ways to kill big mean dudes. probably saws.

Ways to get genestealers in. Gsc psyker for hypnosis. Lictors suck but everyone else thinks theyre godly.

Ways to deal with fliers. Still dont have a good answer.

Staying power on points. Warriors seem really good mathed out, gsc doesnt have any answers they get ripped off by bolters.

Issue aboug gsc is theyre cp heavy, so are genestealers and hive guard. They also have a lot of tax because you need extra buffs to make their mediocre units not mediocre.

Hard to make the two work. I think nids supplement gsc better than the inverse.

Shooty nids MIGHT be good with gsc vehicles but id say just buy a shooty army if you want to shoot. We need tfex to have better high S shooty options that are consistant before we can take a consistant shooty list and even then we'll have issues taking the board.

I tried making a warrior exocrine hiveguard list with maleceptor for midfield turn 1 turn 2 mitigations with biovores but its hard to fit everything you need in. Probably possible. But I dont really want to have to buy exocrines, pods, and 19 warriors to try it.

If i can find some games on tabletop sim maybe ill try it out.

Started to ramble sorry on my lunch break killing time.

[purestrain]

Saws and the character hunters in a bat.

Fill the rest with your metas best bugs.

[hiveoverall]

Dec 17, 2019 21:12:05 GMT purestrain said:

Saws and the character hunters in a bat.

Fill the rest with your metas best bugs.

Yep, especially the character hunting part for me currently (not as expensive). btw the twisted helix warlord trait for +1 damage works on Kellermorph guns when one reads the codex. Was ths faq Ed ? Or does it really work ?
Because that is one nasty character killer right there if ever it works

[kelermorph]

Dec 17, 2019 21:35:33 GMT hiveoverall said:

Dec 17, 2019 21:12:05 GMT purestrain said:

Saws and the character hunters in a bat.

Fill the rest with your metas best bugs.

Yep, especially the character hunting part for me currently (not as expensive). btw the twisted helix warlord trait for +1 damage works on Kellermorph guns when one reads the codex. Was ths faq Ed ? Or does it really work ?
Because that is one nasty character killer right there if ever it works

Making me the warlord means that no 2 adaptive physiologies on the nid side unfortunately. And also that is a guaranteed warlord kill for your opponent.

[xsquidz]

I said this before in a different thread, in my GSC list I might drop some mining lasers to take hive guard instead. They give a stronger T1 presence and they can help clear screens right from T1.

[purestrain]

Dec 17, 2019 21:44:27 GMT kelermorph said:

Dec 17, 2019 21:35:33 GMT hiveoverall said:

Yep, especially the character hunting part for me currently (not as expensive). btw the twisted helix warlord trait for +1 damage works on Kellermorph guns when one reads the codex. Was ths faq Ed ? Or does it really work ?
Because that is one nasty character killer right there if ever it works

Making me the warlord means that no 2 adaptive physiologies on the nid side unfortunately. And also that is a guaranteed warlord kill for your opponent.

1cp can still net you an adaptive, and 2cp will allow the keller (if hes in cover) to be unable to be targeted for the turn with guns.

Costly but if you can fit in a nexos you can fish some cp i guess?

[hiveoverall]

Dec 17, 2019 22:00:53 GMT purestrain said:

Dec 17, 2019 21:44:27 GMT kelermorph said:

Making me the warlord means that no 2 adaptive physiologies on the nid side unfortunately. And also that is a guaranteed warlord kill for your opponent.

1cp can still net you an adaptive, and 2cp will allow the keller (if hes in cover) to be unable to be targeted for the turn with guns.

Costly but if you can fit in a nexos you can fish some cp i guess?

In deed guaranteed warlord kill, I didn’t think about that. But if you kill two or three buffing characters the trade is totally worth it. 

I totally forgot also about the lurke in shadows strat that you mentioned purestrain, but I think to be within range of at least two characters (otherwise the WLT is not worth it imho) the poor Kellermorph will be closest visible to... most of my oppornents army.

suiciding WL is fluffy hah hah because the Hive Mind couldn’t care less about poor Damage3 Kellermorphs fate

also this could requires a mawloc to function better wouldn’t it ? See what mawloc does, then shoot those damage 3 pistols? Or perhaps mawloc instead of damage 3 pistols requiring a suicidal WL and no second adaptation...

[purestrain]

Dec 17, 2019 23:53:33 GMT hiveoverall said:

Dec 17, 2019 22:00:53 GMT purestrain said:

1cp can still net you an adaptive, and 2cp will allow the keller (if hes in cover) to be unable to be targeted for the turn with guns.

Costly but if you can fit in a nexos you can fish some cp i guess?

In deed guaranteed warlord kill, I didn’t think about that. But if you kill two or three buffing characters the trade is totally worth it. 

I totally forgot also about the lurke in shadows strat that you mentioned purestrain, but I think to be within range of at least two characters (otherwise the WLT is not worth it imho) the poor Kellermorph will be closest visible to... most of my oppornents army.

suiciding WL is fluffy hah hah because the Hive Mind couldn’t care less about poor Damage3 Kellermorphs fate

also this could requires a mawloc to function better wouldn’t it ? See what mawloc does, then shoot those damage 3 pistols? Or perhaps mawloc instead of damage 3 pistols requiring a suicidal WL and no second adaptation...

Lurk just prohibits them from being targeted at all in the shooting phase, they can charge him but Ill take my chances with those 6 shots making 1 or two hits and maybe knock him out of the game trying to be a hero.

Ive REALLY been thinking of giving him the dagger of sacrifice, I know hes got 3(4 with dagger) attacks, but hes got 12 (24 if you apa) str 4 shots to clear out so you can stab that hq a few times, wound him once with the sac dagger and they need to take d3 mw, could be useful in forced trades where hes just going to die anyways.

[No One]

hiveoverall said:

Yep, especially the character hunting part for me currently (not as expensive). btw the twisted helix warlord trait for +1 damage works on Kellermorph guns when one reads the codex. Was ths faq Ed ? Or does it really work ?
Because that is one nasty character killer right there if ever it works

...Huh, didn't realise it was all (thought it was just one). I mean, it's suiciding WL, sacrificing adapt and preventing patty, so...better find something you really want to kill. Also, still S4 -1: extra damage doesn't matter if you don't get unsaved wounds through, and against W4 (or 7 I guess...) Chars it changes nothing. Still pretty sure you get more value from relic, while sacrificing less: extra shot, extra AP and reroll wounds helps a lot more with reliability (6.9 wounds vs 7.6 for WL trait vs relic against T4 3+).

[hiveoverall]

Dagger of swift sacrifice I would not put on him, because I often need to deploy him lying in wait. So he can’t charge.

No one yes I think you are right, the relic gun is just as good and doesn’t require to build around so much.

[dandc]

Dec 17, 2019 20:46:01 GMT mule said:

I think nids supplement gsc better than the inverse.

It would be good to hear about the inverse too! How post BoB nids support post-CA GSC.

Cheers for the feedback. So the missing link in an combined-arms nid list might be some saws or Abbies (I know they've been nerfed) for big stuff then the Kelermorph, Sanctus, Alphus and psykers?

[No One]

I'm toying with using HG or warriors as durable units on board to do stuff with. Could be good, but initial testing is...they still just die to IH fliers .

[topaxygourouni]

Dec 18, 2019 10:27:56 GMT No One said:

I'm toying with using HG or warriors as durable units on board to do stuff with. Could be good, but initial testing is...they still just die to IH fliers .

Quick math Vs Mal/Mal jorm warriors with physiology

Storm eagle shoots at 4+ rr1's, wounds on 4s and warriors save on 3+. Average is 1-2 wounds to the warriors on small arms, big missiles have 2 hits on 2+ to wound, so 1-2 wounds to kill 2 warriors or 1 warrior if we pop the stratagem. Full blown storm eagle kills 2 warriors.

Storm raven does a bit better, with full 12 shots from the cannon and wounds on a 3+. On AVG they give us 7 saves --> 1 dead warrior. Missiles might kill another one but on average not really.

And all of that is without catalyst. If 3 IH flyers shoot me and manage to kill 3-4 warriors total, I'll take it. If they hover to benefit from character auras, got my HG /HVC / exos to say hello to them.

New warriors are seriously tough.

[wormlord666]

I really think the blipps and the possibilty to alter deployment really can help a nid gunline. Many armies can scout deploy and re deploy. Having the blipps really gives us the last Word there and keeps units 9” away. That can buy an extra round of shooting and then abiltyvto drop screens in T2 can also help.