2 games yesterday with the new nid stuff-my experiences
Dec 15, 2019 14:55:44 GMT
cenpjas, N.I.B., and 3 more like this
Post by xsquidz on Dec 15, 2019 14:55:44 GMT
Since the GSC codex came out I have been playing them pretty much exclusively, porbably have 100+ games under my belt easy and I do really well, at least an 80% win rate I would say, I sometimes take some nids as allies but it was always 2 broodlords and 3x3 rippers all on the board to give me a minor table presence so more GSC could DS or go back in. I wanted to try some of the new nid stuff and made some lists to specifically try out a shooting list and then a jorg heavy warrior list.
2 games yesterday against "competitive" eldar, I put that in quotes because game 1 he was trying out a bunch of wraith stuff but a lot of that went down so it might be good again, he also had reapers. I took 3 exocrines and 11 hive guard, not enough points for a full 2 units of HG, with lots of support-malanthrope and maelceptor. Triple battalion so 18 CP. When I saw the board I knew I could hide 6 HG, not the other 5 so I have them ignores AP 1/2, they hid in a ruin but on 2nd floor and the dark reapers could target them, but in cover they got the full 3+ save and that made them hard to move, plus I would catalyst them. The 3 exorcines were kronos and had the mal/mal support which helped a ton vs small arms fire and the closest one to him I have the 5++ and double wounds adapt. We did ITC and I lost because of mobility, by the end he was almost tabled, just a few characters/dire avengers hiding and I still had about 8 HG, 1 exocrine and both the mal's, but its such a damn immobile army, it all has to stand still and 36" range can be a real weakness. The new cheaper hive guard with the new kronos spell are just bonkers, I think we all know that. I could see someone making a list with 3*6 of them and it working. The S7 on the exocrine is also a MAJOR setback, he had a wraithknight (again he was testing and its cheaper) but wounding on 5's is garbage, which would be the same vs imperial knights, leman russes. My list was designed more to take on the meta, marines. Exocrines go after the infantry etc, like the +1 damage strat vs aggressors but hive guard were the real heroes. At the end was up by about 6 points in the ITC mission and like I said, the mobility hurt, even with DS about 6 units of rippers.
2nd game my opponent brought what I would say was a super competitve eldar list. Shining spears with quicken, 6 quinn bikes with their double move ability, 9 scatter laser bikes biel tan or whatever to move and shoot with no penalty. Then a bunch of casters to buff/debuff.
I took 6 kronos HG but the main force was 2*9 warriors (rending claws and deathspitters) both Jorg with the +2 cover strat instead of the ignores AP 1/2, it is super nice you can change this game to game. All his shuriken weapons are AP 0 or AP 3 on a 6, scatters are AP 0, he had a hemlock, AP 4 and spears are AP4, even against the AP1 quinns my 2+ cover would have been a 3+ if I had the ignores AP1/2. Against marines you probably want to do the ignores AP1/2 due to T-fire cannons on your hive guard and then they will still have a 3+ in cover. I supported the warriors with the double mal's again. Turn one I went first and shot down his quinn transport and then double fired and killed all the guys instead and piut catalyst on the warriors on the outer rim of my bubble. His scatter bikes cleared out some termagants but also threw a bunch of the shots into my warriors and did almost zero damage due to my 2+ save. His quinns also had little luck against them since they were now at -2 to hit, they had to advance to charge and the malanthrope, and then were S3 due to the maelceptor. When he charged me he killed a few but I got 5+ saves and had catalyst and my attack back was good even with his 3++ (used the strat-part of why he advanced) and then I fougth them twice to kill another. His hemlock also shot my other warriors and I used the -1 damage strat and he rolled poor and only got 3 wounds through and I made one 6+ (2+ cover, AP4 weapon) normally those 2 would kill a warrior, instead it just did 2 wounds to one. I counter charged his quinns with my other warriors on T2 and 2 broodlords and finished them off, hive guard killed like 6 of his scatter bikes, the only ones in range so I could not fire twice, so I just cleared out some dire avengers, his spears had protect for a 2/3++ and 2++ on the exarch and fortune so no point in shooting them. They moved in to blast my first warrior squad that was down to about 5 and I used the strat for -1 damage on the spears... he also shot them with his scatter bikes and few more things and had them down to 3, he charged into them and 1 broodlord and killed them all but I used the kronos power this time to make his casting of protect on 1 dice, AKA impossible. So my T3 I shot them with the hive guard, countered charged them with my 9 warriors, broodlord, maleceptor, and prime and wiped them down to like 2. At the same time my raveners came down and with their deathsptiiers finishes the scatter bikes and I charged and killed another transport. T4 was basically just cleanup from me and we called it, I was way ahead on everything and he was almost tabled.
So at the end, Hive guard are just amazing now for the points. Warriors are so durable but it takes tons of CP and support to really make them work so not sure if it is worth it. I know for Canhammer (biggest team tournament in Canada) one guy is talking about taking 54 warriors... could work.
My thoughts are I still think nids are just good allies for GSC and I might drop my mining lasers for hive guard, gives that T1 presence that GSC can lack (helps getting kill something on T1 or first strike if you take old school) and they can clear out the jerks with the anti 12" DS bubble which is huge. Spend the 1 CP and give them ignores AP1/2 but I probably won't bother with maleceptor, too many points and CP expensive but a malanthrope in ITC games might be worth it but probably not if the most that is firing at them is a few T-fire cannons that I will always get my 3+ cover save against anyways.
2 games yesterday against "competitive" eldar, I put that in quotes because game 1 he was trying out a bunch of wraith stuff but a lot of that went down so it might be good again, he also had reapers. I took 3 exocrines and 11 hive guard, not enough points for a full 2 units of HG, with lots of support-malanthrope and maelceptor. Triple battalion so 18 CP. When I saw the board I knew I could hide 6 HG, not the other 5 so I have them ignores AP 1/2, they hid in a ruin but on 2nd floor and the dark reapers could target them, but in cover they got the full 3+ save and that made them hard to move, plus I would catalyst them. The 3 exorcines were kronos and had the mal/mal support which helped a ton vs small arms fire and the closest one to him I have the 5++ and double wounds adapt. We did ITC and I lost because of mobility, by the end he was almost tabled, just a few characters/dire avengers hiding and I still had about 8 HG, 1 exocrine and both the mal's, but its such a damn immobile army, it all has to stand still and 36" range can be a real weakness. The new cheaper hive guard with the new kronos spell are just bonkers, I think we all know that. I could see someone making a list with 3*6 of them and it working. The S7 on the exocrine is also a MAJOR setback, he had a wraithknight (again he was testing and its cheaper) but wounding on 5's is garbage, which would be the same vs imperial knights, leman russes. My list was designed more to take on the meta, marines. Exocrines go after the infantry etc, like the +1 damage strat vs aggressors but hive guard were the real heroes. At the end was up by about 6 points in the ITC mission and like I said, the mobility hurt, even with DS about 6 units of rippers.
2nd game my opponent brought what I would say was a super competitve eldar list. Shining spears with quicken, 6 quinn bikes with their double move ability, 9 scatter laser bikes biel tan or whatever to move and shoot with no penalty. Then a bunch of casters to buff/debuff.
I took 6 kronos HG but the main force was 2*9 warriors (rending claws and deathspitters) both Jorg with the +2 cover strat instead of the ignores AP 1/2, it is super nice you can change this game to game. All his shuriken weapons are AP 0 or AP 3 on a 6, scatters are AP 0, he had a hemlock, AP 4 and spears are AP4, even against the AP1 quinns my 2+ cover would have been a 3+ if I had the ignores AP1/2. Against marines you probably want to do the ignores AP1/2 due to T-fire cannons on your hive guard and then they will still have a 3+ in cover. I supported the warriors with the double mal's again. Turn one I went first and shot down his quinn transport and then double fired and killed all the guys instead and piut catalyst on the warriors on the outer rim of my bubble. His scatter bikes cleared out some termagants but also threw a bunch of the shots into my warriors and did almost zero damage due to my 2+ save. His quinns also had little luck against them since they were now at -2 to hit, they had to advance to charge and the malanthrope, and then were S3 due to the maelceptor. When he charged me he killed a few but I got 5+ saves and had catalyst and my attack back was good even with his 3++ (used the strat-part of why he advanced) and then I fougth them twice to kill another. His hemlock also shot my other warriors and I used the -1 damage strat and he rolled poor and only got 3 wounds through and I made one 6+ (2+ cover, AP4 weapon) normally those 2 would kill a warrior, instead it just did 2 wounds to one. I counter charged his quinns with my other warriors on T2 and 2 broodlords and finished them off, hive guard killed like 6 of his scatter bikes, the only ones in range so I could not fire twice, so I just cleared out some dire avengers, his spears had protect for a 2/3++ and 2++ on the exarch and fortune so no point in shooting them. They moved in to blast my first warrior squad that was down to about 5 and I used the strat for -1 damage on the spears... he also shot them with his scatter bikes and few more things and had them down to 3, he charged into them and 1 broodlord and killed them all but I used the kronos power this time to make his casting of protect on 1 dice, AKA impossible. So my T3 I shot them with the hive guard, countered charged them with my 9 warriors, broodlord, maleceptor, and prime and wiped them down to like 2. At the same time my raveners came down and with their deathsptiiers finishes the scatter bikes and I charged and killed another transport. T4 was basically just cleanup from me and we called it, I was way ahead on everything and he was almost tabled.
So at the end, Hive guard are just amazing now for the points. Warriors are so durable but it takes tons of CP and support to really make them work so not sure if it is worth it. I know for Canhammer (biggest team tournament in Canada) one guy is talking about taking 54 warriors... could work.
My thoughts are I still think nids are just good allies for GSC and I might drop my mining lasers for hive guard, gives that T1 presence that GSC can lack (helps getting kill something on T1 or first strike if you take old school) and they can clear out the jerks with the anti 12" DS bubble which is huge. Spend the 1 CP and give them ignores AP1/2 but I probably won't bother with maleceptor, too many points and CP expensive but a malanthrope in ITC games might be worth it but probably not if the most that is firing at them is a few T-fire cannons that I will always get my 3+ cover save against anyways.
