|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 20, 2019 12:00:39 GMT
It's so crazy it might work. That's legitimately worth a try. Your issue is what goes into the pod that's not a dud. (3 empty pods is not my idea of efficient) No One that's a whole assault cent shooting into a single Flyrant... And its Imperial Fist, he's stuck on the ground with a 4" move to shoot his hurribolters. This is not a high threat unit, even if it is a high impact one, since its a lot easier to play around. WS assault cents or RG assault cents are a bit diff - popping out of the side with a 7" 3d6 discard 1 charge is pretty killer, and can strike where and when we don't want it to. Popping its hurribolters does 6 shots per Cent for 36 shots total, assuming 2+ to hit (for 3+ rr 1s) for 30 hits, and 5+ (or 6+)wound for 10 (or less) saves, which nets 4 (or less) failed. I mean, why are you scared of this? I'm scared of his charge more than anything else. Assuming that Hurribolters are Melee, and not Shooty. RG gets a 7+" out of DS assuming Chaplain, so that's just as scary. |
|
|
|
Post by wormlord666 on Dec 20, 2019 12:23:14 GMT
Flyrants are just a no go for me any more. 200+ pts for what? 4 str6 attacks in melee? yikes. sure you can compliment that with 12 devourer shots, but now we can have fexes that can advance and shoot, so we can get the same effect for literally half the price. "But he's a jack of all trades". Still shouldn't cost 200+. Do you know who else costs 210 pts post CA? The new Keeper of Secrets, who is the same kind of psyker, equally fast if not faster (Warlord trait takes him to Movement 17), he is infinitely more killy (base str 8 sword, 10 attacks, flat 3 damage on everything, imposes heavy penalties on enemy units (-1 to hit aura, -1 to hit inflicted by the sword) and trades 1 invul save worse for +4 wounds, only he can also get a 6+++ for his troubles. Not to mention the drop dead gorgeous model. If KoS is worth 210 pts, then a flyrant is flat out overcosted. NOW FOR MY NEXT TRICK: 3 T-cytes with Venom Cannons, Jorm. 300 pts. They all drop down, pop the spell for reroll hits. --> on avg 30 shots, 10 hits, 20 rerolls -> another 7 hits. Almost like a 3+ BS  . 300 pts, 17 hits on venom cannons. Who's bloody with me? Why stop at three? Bring six and do it two times! |
|
|
|
Post by purestrain on Dec 20, 2019 12:28:43 GMT
Flyrants are just a no go for me any more. 200+ pts for what? 4 str6 attacks in melee? yikes. sure you can compliment that with 12 devourer shots, but now we can have fexes that can advance and shoot, so we can get the same effect for literally half the price. "But he's a jack of all trades". Still shouldn't cost 200+. Do you know who else costs 210 pts post CA? The new Keeper of Secrets, who is the same kind of psyker, equally fast if not faster (Warlord trait takes him to Movement 17), he is infinitely more killy (base str 8 sword, 10 attacks, flat 3 damage on everything, imposes heavy penalties on enemy units (-1 to hit aura, -1 to hit inflicted by the sword) and trades 1 invul save worse for +4 wounds, only he can also get a 6+++ for his troubles. Not to mention the drop dead gorgeous model. If KoS is worth 210 pts, then a flyrant is flat out overcosted. NOW FOR MY NEXT TRICK: 3 T-cytes with Venom Cannons, Jorm. 300 pts. They all drop down, pop the spell for reroll hits. --> on avg 30 shots, 10 hits, 20 rerolls -> another 7 hits. Almost like a 3+ BS . 300 pts, 17 hits on venom cannons. Who's bloody with me? 17 cannon hits, once a game, after t1. No? what are you shooting? you arent even killing knights with that amount because of d3 damage. |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 20, 2019 13:19:40 GMT
Flyrants are just a no go for me any more. 200+ pts for what? 4 str6 attacks in melee? yikes. sure you can compliment that with 12 devourer shots, but now we can have fexes that can advance and shoot, so we can get the same effect for literally half the price. "But he's a jack of all trades". Still shouldn't cost 200+. Do you know who else costs 210 pts post CA? The new Keeper of Secrets, who is the same kind of psyker, equally fast if not faster (Warlord trait takes him to Movement 17), he is infinitely more killy (base str 8 sword, 10 attacks, flat 3 damage on everything, imposes heavy penalties on enemy units (-1 to hit aura, -1 to hit inflicted by the sword) and trades 1 invul save worse for +4 wounds, only he can also get a 6+++ for his troubles. Not to mention the drop dead gorgeous model. If KoS is worth 210 pts, then a flyrant is flat out overcosted. NOW FOR MY NEXT TRICK: 3 T-cytes with Venom Cannons, Jorm. 300 pts. They all drop down, pop the spell for reroll hits. --> on avg 30 shots, 10 hits, 20 rerolls -> another 7 hits. Almost like a 3+ BS . 300 pts, 17 hits on venom cannons. Who's bloody with me? 17 cannon hits, once a game, after t1. No? what are you shooting? you arent even killing knights with that amount because of d3 damage. Shooting at tincans. Dunno, the same targets you are shooting with the hive guards I guess, since they have the exact same profile. The point of the Cytes is that they are the cheapest platform we have to carry this amount of weaponry. Never said it will demolish planets. The jorm spell does fix their (please do not swear) BS however to an extend, and since Cytes were made to drop anyways, making them into Jorm makes very much sense. |
|
|
|
Post by No One on Dec 20, 2019 13:29:00 GMT
Popping its hurribolters does 6 shots per Cent for 36 shots total, assuming 2+ to hit (for 3+ rr 1s) for 30 hits, and 5+ (or 6+)wound for 10 (or less) saves, which nets 4 (or less) failed. I mean, why are you scared of this? I'm scared of his charge more than anything else. Because it's rapid 6, and cents always get bolter discipline (like everything with hurricanes, actually: and 10 pts for 12 S4 shots is...a bit silly). And it's in tac doctrine (because why wouldn't you, unless you're WS and have made it to assault already), so 4+ sv. 5+ to wound because S4 unless you've got a 'cepter (and if you've got that, could instead have chaplain for +1 to wound. And yes, they can get both +1 to wound and 7" charge from the same chaplain, because marines needed more buffs). Like, just 6 cents in tac with captain is over 9 wounds. Go with CM (which considering RG get Shrike for reroll charges as well...), or lieutenant, and you're in 'someone looks at you funny and you die' range. |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 20, 2019 13:51:02 GMT
It's no use discussing the damage output of centurions. They will kill (please do not swear), period.
Good thing is that our Exocrine + symbiostorm kinda has "It which kills cents" printed on its gun. One exo + symbiostorm will kill 3 transhuman cents, then the HVC can pick the rest, and we DO outrange the cents even with their movement.
|
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 20, 2019 15:39:13 GMT
Popping its hurribolters does 6 shots per Cent for 36 shots total, assuming 2+ to hit (for 3+ rr 1s) for 30 hits, and 5+ (or 6+)wound for 10 (or less) saves, which nets 4 (or less) failed. I mean, why are you scared of this? I'm scared of his charge more than anything else. Because it's rapid 6, and cents always get bolter discipline (like everything with hurricanes, actually: and 10 pts for 12 S4 shots is...a bit silly). And it's in tac doctrine (because why wouldn't you, unless you're WS and have made it to assault already), so 4+ sv. 5+ to wound because S4 unless you've got a 'cepter (and if you've got that, could instead have chaplain for +1 to wound. And yes, they can get both +1 to wound and 7" charge from the same chaplain, because marines needed more buffs). Like, just 6 cents in tac with captain is over 9 wounds. Go with CM (which considering RG get Shrike for reroll charges as well...), or lieutenant, and you're in 'someone looks at you funny and you die' range. My mistake, I thought it was rapid 3.not sure which weapon is rapid 3 now. 316pts for the unit which is pretty good. Literally only RG Cents have this kind of uncontrollable cent threat though. If they're prevalent then yea triple Flyrant doesn't work so hot (still does I think, they can't kill 3 with it, but it's a lot harder) but T8 Jorg kinda laughs at it. RG ain't IF and no one uses Dev Cents. An OOE with Monstrous still wrecks it, maybe harder than SL does. (2+ 4s explode, 3s reroll, 6+sv 4dmg). No idea if he survived the charge but eh, its a positive trade. If it's WS popping up behind then just grab middle and give up the back line. |
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 20, 2019 15:45:59 GMT
It's no use discussing the damage output of centurions. They will kill (please do not swear), period. Good thing is that our Exocrine + symbiostorm kinda has "It which kills cents" printed on its gun. One exo + symbiostorm will kill 3 transhuman cents, then the HVC can pick the rest, and we DO outrange the cents even with their movement. Cents are 2+sv 4W, so 12 shots 14 hits 7 wounds (Transhuman) 4 failed 2 to 2.5 dead. HVC picks up 2 shots 3s 3s so 1 save half dies for 3 dead (meaning 2 HVCs per dead Cent, really bad trade). If RG much worse due to on cover outside 12, if not drop pod. Exos are trash tier vs Cents. SL or OOE is da wae. |
|
|
|
Post by purestrain on Dec 20, 2019 16:14:36 GMT
Biovore might stop them in their tracks, they won't do much but be bullet magnets and lane stoppers but that's a good thing in my book for 120 point 3 man squads
|
|
|
|
Post by mule on Dec 20, 2019 16:19:49 GMT
It's no use discussing the damage output of centurions. They will kill (please do not swear), period. Good thing is that our Exocrine + symbiostorm kinda has "It which kills cents" printed on its gun. One exo + symbiostorm will kill 3 transhuman cents, then the HVC can pick the rest, and we DO outrange the cents even with their movement. Where are you getting your math from? I got 2 kills without transhuman. Cents are 4 wounds now right? |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 20, 2019 16:36:11 GMT
It's no use discussing the damage output of centurions. They will kill (please do not swear), period. Good thing is that our Exocrine + symbiostorm kinda has "It which kills cents" printed on its gun. One exo + symbiostorm will kill 3 transhuman cents, then the HVC can pick the rest, and we DO outrange the cents even with their movement. Cents are 2+sv 4W, so 12 shots 14 hits 7 wounds (Transhuman) 4 failed 2 to 2.5 dead. HVC picks up 2 shots 3s 3s so 1 save half dies for 3 dead (meaning 2 HVCs per dead Cent, really bad trade). If RG much worse due to on cover outside 12, if not drop pod. Exos are trash tier vs Cents. SL or OOE is da wae. 1 exocrine killing 2.5 centurions is "trash tier"? Do we play the same game here? |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 20, 2019 16:37:17 GMT
It's no use discussing the damage output of centurions. They will kill (please do not swear), period. Good thing is that our Exocrine + symbiostorm kinda has "It which kills cents" printed on its gun. One exo + symbiostorm will kill 3 transhuman cents, then the HVC can pick the rest, and we DO outrange the cents even with their movement. Where are you getting your math from? I got 2 kills without transhuman. Cents are 4 wounds now right? 12 shots, symbio = 14 hits, transhuman that's 7 wounds, save on 5's, 5 go through, 2.5 cents dead. Pretty damn decent if you ask me. |
|
|
|
Post by mule on Dec 20, 2019 17:12:11 GMT
Where are you getting your math from? I got 2 kills without transhuman. Cents are 4 wounds now right? 12 shots, symbio = 14 hits, transhuman that's 7 wounds, save on 5's, 5 go through, 2.5 cents dead. Pretty damn decent if you ask me. I got 16 shots with symbio and kronos, 10.667 hits, 7.111 wounds, unsaved wounds is 4.741, damage is 9.481, which is 2 dead models. Before transhuman. They will 100% transhuman their cents, means 1 dead cent. |
|
|
|
Post by kazetanade on Dec 20, 2019 17:25:24 GMT
Cents are 2+sv 4W, so 12 shots 14 hits 7 wounds (Transhuman) 4 failed 2 to 2.5 dead. HVC picks up 2 shots 3s 3s so 1 save half dies for 3 dead (meaning 2 HVCs per dead Cent, really bad trade). If RG much worse due to on cover outside 12, if not drop pod. Exos are trash tier vs Cents. SL or OOE is da wae. 1 exocrine killing 2.5 centurions is "trash tier"? Do we play the same game here? Apparently we don't. 314 for a full unit of 6. 157 for 3. So 125pts dead for 2.5 dead Cents, by spending 155pts and possibly 1cp (assuming no pod and ignoring cost of psyker, as they should be sunk cost regardless). That's also assuming no cover from RG moving it to 1.5-2 Cents. Vs shooting at Aggressors if present(155 for 222), or Dreadnoughts if present (155 for 160++). Contrast - OOE with Adaptation gets 5A, exploding on 4s, wounding on 4s rerolling. 6-7 hits, 5 wounds, 5 dead (200pts for 250 pts). The special fleet thing Preysight would result in dead unit (200 for 314). Throwing Exos into Cents is not efficient play, and shouldn't be done unless you have literally nothing better to shoot at - understand that they have more efficient and preferred high impact targets they can go for. Even going for a Exec (which prob doesn't appear in a Cents list to be fair) would be more efficient with Slime. But trash tier vs Cents might have been too harsh, we have way worse anti-tank guns to put into them. Like the HVC. That's my mistake. Now impact isn't always measured in points trade, you can have huge impact with bad points trade offs. But as a general rule, don't use Exocrenes to deal with Cents unless you're desperate. |
|
|
|
Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 20, 2019 21:40:44 GMT
1 exocrine killing 2.5 centurions is "trash tier"? Do we play the same game here? Apparently we don't. 314 for a full unit of 6. 157 for 3. So 125pts dead for 2.5 dead Cents, by spending 155pts and possibly 1cp (assuming no pod and ignoring cost of psyker, as they should be sunk cost regardless). That's also assuming no cover from RG moving it to 1.5-2 Cents. Vs shooting at Aggressors if present(155 for 222), or Dreadnoughts if present (155 for 160++). Contrast - OOE with Adaptation gets 5A, exploding on 4s, wounding on 4s rerolling. 6-7 hits, 5 wounds, 5 dead (200pts for 250 pts). The special fleet thing Preysight would result in dead unit (200 for 314). Throwing Exos into Cents is not efficient play, and shouldn't be done unless you have literally nothing better to shoot at - understand that they have more efficient and preferred high impact targets they can go for. Even going for a Exec (which prob doesn't appear in a Cents list to be fair) would be more efficient with Slime. But trash tier vs Cents might have been too harsh, we have way worse anti-tank guns to put into them. Like the HVC. That's my mistake. Now impact isn't always measured in points trade, you can have huge impact with bad points trade offs. But as a general rule, don't use Exocrenes to deal with Cents unless you're desperate. OOE needs to make combat to do his thing, and that's a BIG if. Comparing a unit that can shoot from 36" (or 42" if it moves) to a melee unit that has to go through all the screens AND the overwatch should obviously show how much more potent Exo is to the OOE. Spending a potential 1 CP on the exo it's ok as we have already assumed the enemy used transhuman on the cents. If you count points for the psyker I will count points for chapter master and lieutenant, without whom the cents are actually a hell lot less horrifying. |
|
.
