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Post by gaggleshmatz on Dec 1, 2019 5:00:14 GMT
Hey all, I'm planning on starting Nids from the battleforce and I was wondering what I show buy to supplement that box to build towards a Nidzilla type list. Thanks in advance
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Post by gigasnail on Dec 1, 2019 5:51:21 GMT
well stud, you came in at an interesting time. the Chapter Approved and Psychic Awakening books are about to hit, and we just got a bunch of points drops and new stratagems. as to what's good, right now it's all up in the air. a couple more carnifexes, an exocrine, or a tyrranofex would be good for more large monsters. you'll want to round out your troop units too, for screening the important monsters and scoring.
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Post by mule on Dec 1, 2019 6:32:20 GMT
Not saying this will be good or competitive, just what has been going through my head since the leaks.
Maleceptor + Malenthrope
2 Tfex with both your adaptations to give them 5++
2 Exocrines with 2 unupgraded pods.
Rippers, Warriors and Primes to fill out the rest of your Detatchments
CFex with 4x Devourer and Acid Maws to rip apart hordes.
With Biovores to pink off the extra wounds and clog the board up.
Just thinking this out in this post:
I'd start with Maleceptor + Malenthrope base for a total of 270 points
Take a Tyranid Prime for another 70 for the batallion.
2x Tfex with Rupture Cannons is 372
3x Biovores for your third heavy slot for another 120 Points.
3x3 Rippers are 99 points
931 points thus far
From here i'd probably throw in double Neurothrope for some cheap ish psychic powers.
2x Neuro 180
3x3 more rippers to finish the batallion since we're going to need atleast 8 CP + anything else we want to play with. another 99 points
3 more biovores to really clog the map up for another 120 points.
2 Exocrine 310 Points
2 TCyte Pods 100 Points
Currently that puts us at 1740 points. We could cut the rippers from the first squad and fill it out with some warrior units.
Keep the rippers in, and throw in some CFex. I think we could probably fit 2 decent CFex in there, but they'll stick out so we really want more than that.
Cut one or both Neuros and put in 2 flyrants.
This will put you at 13 CP, -1 CP for the second 5++ TFex. Putting you at 12.
We will pretty much always have to spend the new 2CP stratagem to reduce the strength of the shots coming in. Meaning you have 10.
Every turn we bring in a pod we're going to be making the exocrine be able to shoot twice, meaning thats another 2 CP bringing you to 8
We MIGHT want to increase the damage from 2 to 3 depending on the targets you want to hit. That'd be another 2 CP each turn leaving you with 4.
Real question is, do we need 2 battalions or can we cut some of the tax. Like that Prime. Or if you're taking a flyrant, well we can cut a neuro and drop that down to a spearhead or vanguard detatchment, with some rearranging of units.
You'd lose 4 CP but then we'd have more units on the field and we technically don't need to increase the damage on the exocrine shots both times, so that'd give us a 0-4 CP buffer and another 189 points to play with. Bringing you down to 1551 points.
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General strategy is just doing shooty things. Survive longer than your opponent. Rippers grab the map.
Biovores move and are out of synapse shooting at things that aren't the closest so they are -2 to hit. We want the spores so we can drop them infront of the unit where our exocrine is going to be, and to prevent their troops from moving up the board before we've shot down everything scary. Just delay those centurion and etc from moving up, while we abuse our range. Tcytes will feel like a lot of wasted shots, and our exocrine **should** make its value back up every time we drop them.
We don't really want melee because we're abusing range and clogging the map up. Our rippers have a low profile so hiding them should be easy, and if we're using the new ripper stratagem they'll be -1 to hit, so indirect fire doesn't murder them as easily. Plus our ranged units should be removing whirlwinds and etc first anyways.
Which just leaves dealing with deepstriking, which will probably be our biggest issue, and not sure how to solve that besides just having a unit willing to counter charge.
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Post by 1b2a on Dec 1, 2019 7:05:42 GMT
I have a better idea. Bring 16 tyrannocytes with 80 venom cannons, and a patrol of a neurothrope and ripper swarm
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Post by mule on Dec 1, 2019 7:10:02 GMT
I have a better idea. Bring 16 tyrannocytes with 80 venom cannons, and a patrol of a neurothrope and ripper swarm Rule of 3 or I would. >: ) |
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Post by 1b2a on Dec 1, 2019 7:15:39 GMT
I have a better idea. Bring 16 tyrannocytes with 80 venom cannons, and a patrol of a neurothrope and ripper swarm Rule of 3 or I would. >: ) Dedicated transports are exempt |
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Post by No One on Dec 1, 2019 7:29:06 GMT
You still need equivalent units to number of transports
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Post by mule on Dec 1, 2019 7:30:14 GMT
Rule of 3 or I would. >: ) Dedicated transports are exempt ok you called my bluff, i probably won't do that. I don't think they're that great at shooting. But for 50 points and dropping an exo who can double shoot and remove 9 primaris marines in a turn, shouldn't be too bad. Then they still have to deal with the bug. Whilst my tfex are at range blasting away. Another thing is getting rid of thunderfire cannons, which an exo should be able to remove 2 a turn. Or pumping the exocrines shooting up and removing a whirlwind the turn it comes down is very nice. Deepstruck Exocrines have a lot of merrit. Right now SM are really good in itc because they can just sit back hold thier obj, and use thunderfire and whirlwinds to get kill. Where as our xenos can't do that. Their bubbles are too strong, but if we can remove their kill more and we have hold more, well now we're winning so they have to come out of their aura's they have to move out and take the board, once they do that their units are much easier to remove. So deepstriking an exocrine and clearing a whirlwind each turn puts us in a decent spot to actually win ITC vs SM. Pair that with the damage reduction of maleceptors, we're actually sitting in a spot where we can actually have the tools we need to deal with SM. |
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Post by xtztxtxz on Dec 1, 2019 9:44:07 GMT
Another thing is getting rid of thunderfire cannons, which an exo should be able to remove 2 a turn. Or pumping the exocrines shooting up and removing a whirlwind the turn it comes down is very nice. I'm really fancying Mawlocs as a counter to thunderfire cannons and similar artillery. The new strat gives them guaranteed damage and can hit both the weapon and crew at once, which shooting can't really do. As already said, Exocrines are also a massive winner from this update which made a good unit even better. Any Nidzilla list should have at least one. |
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Post by timcz on Dec 1, 2019 9:45:10 GMT
That and the flying ballsack I think is one of the most pain in the ass models. So many gaps to fill.
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Post by No One on Dec 1, 2019 10:02:25 GMT
Requires you to have space to fit the giant mawloc base: which, considering that the best place for them is often parked in/behind a ruin? Also, you know, it does max 3 wounds on 4+ wound models, with the techmarine also able to heal the TFC. Which is part of the issue with going for them, and similar Characters: damage matters not at all if there's no follow up, and for a 60" range, ignore LoS, easily hideable model? I doubt you're going to have space to fit 2 mawlocs...
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Post by mule on Dec 1, 2019 10:18:38 GMT
Another thing is getting rid of thunderfire cannons, which an exo should be able to remove 2 a turn. Or pumping the exocrines shooting up and removing a whirlwind the turn it comes down is very nice. I'm really fancying Mawlocs as a counter to thunderfire cannons and similar artillery. The new strat gives them guaranteed damage and can hit both the weapon and crew at once, which shooting can't really do. As already said, Exocrines are also a massive winner from this update which made a good unit even better. Any Nidzilla list should have at least one. As much as I love mawlocs, I don't think they'll work. As I said before xenos in general sits in a bad spot vs SM because of whirlwinds and thunderfire. They sit in their aura's of buffs on shooting with invulns etc. If you deepstrike in you get punished and lose units more heavily. Their indirect fire is much better than other armies so no matter what, if you go in with your valueable stuff, you'll lose more than them 9/10 times. They don't need to push up because they're picking your army apart and whittling your important units with more indirect fire than you. Because of this expect their indirect fire behind cover in somethign that you can't actually deepstrike near, surrounded by units to push you out too far. You need to be 1 inch away and if they have a screen you probably won't be able to get the mawlocs in. One thing I've said a lot earlier in indexhammer, is that mawlocs are good because they force your opponent to clump up harder. This is still the case. But I don't think they have the same impact as they should d3 mortal wounds +2 mortal wounds. Could be 5 mortal wounds which is pretty scary, but it could also be 3. Which is basically the same value you'll get out of 2 biovores, who won't instantly die. IF the stratagem allowed mawlocs to charge. They'd be super good. The other thing is even against armies who are more spread out. Lets take orks for example where they cant just hide and castle up. You can't really hit anything of value. Loota's going to have grots they can just pass wounds to. Tau will have drones they can just pass wounds to, plus they'll be castled up, and pretty much every xenos army will just screen you out. Maybe having a mawloc for turn 3 drops where your opponent really needs to be thinking about pushing out could be good. Coming in and basically being the assassin where you're guarenteed 3 mortal wounds on atleast one thing, and your opponent might not have LOS on the mawloc. Sure it has some merrits. But dealing with thunderfire and whirlwinds I don't think you'll get the mawloc close enough unfortunately, and by the time you could. Like turn three, they've already pulled your dudes off of points. |
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Post by mule on Dec 1, 2019 10:21:30 GMT
Requires you to have space to fit the giant mawloc base: which, considering that the best place for them is often parked in/behind a ruin? Also, you know, it does max 3 wounds on 4+ wound models, with the techmarine also able to heal the TFC. Which is part of the issue with going for them, and similar Characters: damage matters not at all if there's no follow up, and for a 60" range, ignore LoS, easily hideable model? I doubt you're going to have space to fit 2 mawlocs... There is strat that is a +2 mortal wounds on mawlocs when they come in for 1cp. So minimum 3 maximum 5 mortals, and it can deal it to both if you're able and allowed to pop in at a good spot. That oppertunity wont pop up until turn 3+ and you can only really come in on turn 3. Mawlocs can go back down but for 15 points more now you can just have 3 biovores pumping 3 mortal wounds a turn. By the time you bring your mawloc up you could've already laid down 6 mortal wounds on the cannon. |
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Post by No One on Dec 1, 2019 11:28:26 GMT
Unless I'm very much mistaken, it's +2 to the TftD roll. Which isn't directly MW: 1 no mortals, 2-3 D3, 4+ flat 3. This makes that flat 3 almost guaranteed, which is nice. But it's still capped at 3, which means it's useless on basically everything in the game solo, and is only really useful as a way of softening up multiple units with reasonable (screening dependant) reliability.
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Post by hiveoverall on Dec 1, 2019 15:04:11 GMT
Requires you to have space to fit the giant mawloc base: which, considering that the best place for them is often parked in/behind a ruin? Also, you know, it does max 3 wounds on 4+ wound models, with the techmarine also able to heal the TFC. Which is part of the issue with going for them, and similar Characters: damage matters not at all if there's no follow up, and for a 60" range, ignore LoS, easily hideable model? I doubt you're going to have space to fit 2 mawlocs... There is strat that is a +2 mortal wounds on mawlocs when they come in for 1cp. So minimum 3 maximum 5 mortals, and it can deal it to both if you're able and allowed to pop in at a good spot. That oppertunity wont pop up until turn 3+ and you can only really come in on turn 3. Mawlocs can go back down but for 15 points more now you can just have 3 biovores pumping 3 mortal wounds a turn. By the time you bring your mawloc up you could've already laid down 6 mortal wounds on the cannon. Plus two on the roll, not plus two MW unfortunately. It is still a good stratagem though, and I will be putting my Mawlock back in my lists thanks to it |
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