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Post by kurtangle2 on Dec 1, 2019 17:43:41 GMT
A trygon prime with Monsterous Weapons Will more than likely kick the (please do not swear) out of anything you want now, esp if you pay for sacs and give him the Relic for 5+ wounds granting mw's, and IIRC there is a strat for +1 wound on the charge? thats 4+mws iirc... crazy powerful Theres one I like better. You can easily get him into combat now with the 3d6+1+1 (adrenal glands) charge pick the highest. Then use the one that if you have a synapse creature in combat, another unit (the one who used his tunnel) also gets to charge on 3d6 pick the highest. It's 3d6 +1, the relic removes your adrenal gland biomorph |
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Post by purestrain on Dec 1, 2019 17:56:36 GMT
A trygon prime with Monsterous Weapons Will more than likely kick the (please do not swear) out of anything you want now, esp if you pay for sacs and give him the Relic for 5+ wounds granting mw's, and IIRC there is a strat for +1 wound on the charge? thats 4+mws iirc... crazy powerful You didn't get anything correctly lol. Trygon prime can only be played the following way atm: Deepstriking 5++ Physiology and keep a better efficiency on the wound chart 3D6 discard lowest Relic that also adds +1" to Advance/Charge *Possibly* Reroll Charge via Kraken Psychic Power casted by somebody's else *Possibly* Reroll failed wounds in melee via Stratagem Adaptations aren't worth them because you would want a detachment made only of specific units to benefit from specific rules (i.e. reroll Psychic Tests in a detachment of 2 Neurothropes and 3x6 Zoanthropes) Explain exactly whats wrong with a Behemoth Trygon prime Charging a unit with ap-4 attacks? 5++ and better charts is 100% better for a scythed heriodule or a Shooting platform, as he shows up to fight then and there, not sitting there all game... Nah, ill take the triple cast on my Tyrant, thanks. plus cp in Psychic phase cast 4 spells and lol at eldar when they whine they cant keep up. Ofcourse you failed wounds strat, if hes got the sacs for 5+ mw why wouldnt you?. You do know adaptations arent army wide, and are model/unit specific right? and the detachment of specific stuff to benefit are the melee monsters that come out with him and have decent weapons because stratagems. |
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Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 1, 2019 17:57:28 GMT
Guys...the Kronos spell... Doesn't say unmodified 6's. Exocrine get +1 to hit...
Kronos spell on an exocrine is +4 autohits... On average 13 hits with 12 shots...
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Post by kurtangle2 on Dec 1, 2019 18:03:06 GMT
You didn't get anything correctly lol. Trygon prime can only be played the following way atm: Deepstriking 5++ Physiology and keep a better efficiency on the wound chart 3D6 discard lowest Relic that also adds +1" to Advance/Charge *Possibly* Reroll Charge via Kraken Psychic Power casted by somebody's else *Possibly* Reroll failed wounds in melee via Stratagem Adaptations aren't worth them because you would want a detachment made only of specific units to benefit from specific rules (i.e. reroll Psychic Tests in a detachment of 2 Neurothropes and 3x6 Zoanthropes) Explain exactly whats wrong with a Behemoth Trygon prime Charging a unit with ap-4 attacks? 5++ and better charts is 100% better for a scythed heriodule or a Shooting platform, as he shows up to fight then and there, not sitting there all game... Nah, ill take the triple cast on my Tyrant, thanks. plus cp in Psychic phase cast 4 spells and lol at eldar when they whine they cant keep up. Ofcourse you failed wounds strat, if hes got the sacs for 5+ mw why wouldnt you?. You do know adaptations arent army wide, and are model/unit specific right? and the detachment of specific stuff to benefit are the melee monsters that come out with him and have decent weapons because stratagems. You're speaking with the guy who compiled the (please do not swear) you're reading in this topic. - AP4 attacks when you don't have a safe delivery mechanism is futile. There's a reason why GSC plays with 8" rerolling charges (and sometimes they aren't even enough). Trygon does not need more damage (and considering that S9 is only worth against T8, -4 AP only against 2+/3+ armour saves and +1 Damage often futile unless you're against Primaris statline and you want to make sure to at least deal 2 damage per hit but I wonder why you choose a Trygon to attack a Primaris statline at that point) - Hierodule is overpriced even when you consider a 5++, you won't be taking it anyway so I don't even consider giving a bonus to a unit not worth putting on a battlefield. - You can only cast 4 powers if you use BOTH Power of the Hive Mind (+1 cast) AND Synaptic Channelling (Know every power of your HIVE FLEET Psykers on the table at that moment) since it doesn't give you an additional "known" power but "only" an additional cast/deny/+1 to all casts |
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Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 1, 2019 18:08:21 GMT
A trygon is base str 7. Giving it the oversized augmentation makes perfect sense. Trygon prime can get the relic to make a good charge roll, and if it's behemoth it's practically guaranteed. Then use the hive instinct to also bring the behemoth toxicrene that just got out of the egg in as well, and bring the egg too for good measure.
If not behemoth, then the +1 to hit when charging + 6" consolidate will mean that you will wreck faces in melee AND block multiple units at the same time.
Moving from landing plasma hits in hth to landing melta hits in hth is super worth it.
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Post by purestrain on Dec 1, 2019 18:11:09 GMT
Explain exactly whats wrong with a Behemoth Trygon prime Charging a unit with ap-4 attacks? 5++ and better charts is 100% better for a scythed heriodule or a Shooting platform, as he shows up to fight then and there, not sitting there all game... Nah, ill take the triple cast on my Tyrant, thanks. plus cp in Psychic phase cast 4 spells and lol at eldar when they whine they cant keep up. Ofcourse you failed wounds strat, if hes got the sacs for 5+ mw why wouldnt you?. You do know adaptations arent army wide, and are model/unit specific right? and the detachment of specific stuff to benefit are the melee monsters that come out with him and have decent weapons because stratagems. You're speaking with the guy who compiled the (please do not swear) you're reading in this topic. - AP4 attacks when you don't have a safe delivery mechanism is futile. There's a reason why GSC plays with 8" rerolling charges (and sometimes they aren't even enough). Trygon does not need more damage (and considering that S9 is only worth against T8, -4 AP only against 2+/3+ armour saves and +1 Damage often futile unless you're against Primaris statline and you want to make sure to at least deal 2 damage per hit but I wonder why you choose a Trygon to attack a Primaris statline at that point) - Hierodule is overpriced even when you consider a 5++, you won't be taking it anyway so I don't even consider giving a bonus to a unit not worth putting on a battlefield. - You can only cast 4 powers if you use BOTH Power of the Hive Mind (+1 cast) AND Synaptic Channelling (Know every power of your HIVE FLEET Psykers on the table at that moment) since it doesn't give you an additional "known" power but "only" an additional cast/deny/+1 to all casts Is that a yes or a no? Just because you typed it out doesnt mean your the messiah of it all. I knew that before I said it, its not like you pointing that out makes casting 4 spells any less of a thing to do. Heriodule is overpriced? sure, without any defenses, but it can have them now, and seems like a decent mulcher to swing in with swarmy. but I wont be taking it anyway? sure dude, tell me how I play my games... lmao. |
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Post by kurtangle2 on Dec 1, 2019 18:20:20 GMT
A trygon is base str 7. Giving it the oversized augmentation makes perfect sense. Trygon prime can get the relic to make a good charge roll, and if it's behemoth it's practically guaranteed. Then use the hive instinct to also bring the behemoth toxicrene that just got out of the egg in as well, and bring the egg too for good measure. If not behemoth, then the +1 to hit when charging + 6" consolidate will mean that you will wreck faces in melee AND block multiple units at the same time. Moving from landing plasma hits in hth to landing melta hits in hth is super worth it. Except for the fact that you aren't gonna hit anything decent from Deepstrike worthy of D6+1 Damage |
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Post by purestrain on Dec 1, 2019 18:21:20 GMT
A trygon is base str 7. Giving it the oversized augmentation makes perfect sense. Trygon prime can get the relic to make a good charge roll, and if it's behemoth it's practically guaranteed. Then use the hive instinct to also bring the behemoth toxicrene that just got out of the egg in as well, and bring the egg too for good measure. If not behemoth, then the +1 to hit when charging + 6" consolidate will mean that you will wreck faces in melee AND block multiple units at the same time. Moving from landing plasma hits in hth to landing melta hits in hth is super worth it. Except for the fact that you aren't gonna hit anything decent from Deepstrike worthy of D6+1 Damage Knights dont exist? cant hit them with str 8 ap-4 attacks? TFC arent a thing? nothing exists? okay then. |
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Post by kurtangle2 on Dec 1, 2019 18:21:53 GMT
You're speaking with the guy who compiled the (please do not swear) you're reading in this topic. - AP4 attacks when you don't have a safe delivery mechanism is futile. There's a reason why GSC plays with 8" rerolling charges (and sometimes they aren't even enough). Trygon does not need more damage (and considering that S9 is only worth against T8, -4 AP only against 2+/3+ armour saves and +1 Damage often futile unless you're against Primaris statline and you want to make sure to at least deal 2 damage per hit but I wonder why you choose a Trygon to attack a Primaris statline at that point) - Hierodule is overpriced even when you consider a 5++, you won't be taking it anyway so I don't even consider giving a bonus to a unit not worth putting on a battlefield. - You can only cast 4 powers if you use BOTH Power of the Hive Mind (+1 cast) AND Synaptic Channelling (Know every power of your HIVE FLEET Psykers on the table at that moment) since it doesn't give you an additional "known" power but "only" an additional cast/deny/+1 to all casts Is that a yes or a no? Just because you typed it out doesnt mean your the messiah of it all. I knew that before I said it, its not like you pointing that out makes casting 4 spells any less of a thing to do. Heriodule is overpriced? sure, without any defenses, but it can have them now, and seems like a decent mulcher to swing in with swarmy. but I wont be taking it anyway? sure dude, tell me how I play my games... lmao. You can play however you want but none of your tips are gonna get listened on a more competitive environment. If your meta allows a Trygon prime to freely do whatever it wants with the same "tanking" stats good for you, but don't speak of it as if it had received an enormous buff because it really hasn't. |
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Post by kurtangle2 on Dec 1, 2019 18:23:27 GMT
Except for the fact that you aren't gonna hit anything decent from Deepstrike worthy of D6+1 Damage Knights dont exist? cant hit them with str 8 ap-4 attacks? TFC arent a thing? nothing exists? okay then. - Knights have quietly faded from top competitive lists and even if you managed to find one, nobody ever sane in his mind KNOWING that you have a Trygon in deepstrike will let you freely charge it with no countermeasures. - You don't take a Trygon prime to OVERKILL a TFC, and they aren't generally played in singles (nor left unchecked) |
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Post by topaxygourouni on Dec 1, 2019 18:28:17 GMT
A trygon prime in a vacuum alone,no. But a trygon prime bringing along some warriors or devilgants, a pod bringing down a toxicrene or a haruspex ready to charge with 3d6 and rerolls, a mawloc to push an unnatural amount of mw for its points, exocrines to move + shoot with exploding 5's and 6's and no penalties, flyrants with 26" devourers, and quite possibly next to a bunch of slingshotted stealers? New nids bask in plurality and having too many fronts for an opponent to account for everything.
If you can't see that, then maybe you are not that omnipotent in Tyranids as you try to claim.
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 1, 2019 18:30:28 GMT
A trygon prime with Monsterous Weapons Will more than likely kick the (please do not swear) out of anything you want now, esp if you pay for sacs and give him the Relic for 5+ wounds granting mw's, and IIRC there is a strat for +1 wound on the charge? thats 4+mws iirc... crazy powerful It's unmodified 5s, so never any better than a 5+ for those mortal wounds. I dont think the T-gon Prime needs it though. Assuming you pop the MWW on him, it's 6A(or 7?) of S8, 3+ to hit, -4ap and 4D. Assuming all hit and all wounds (very ambitious but easy to calc), and no invul, you're looking at 5-6 x 4 = 20-24W. As Behemoth, you can actually stack the +1W and the special Scytal relic on it, for base wound on 2+ (you're basically trading reroll wound for +1 wound so you could use reroll wound on someone else), with 1 extra A wounding on 3+. If you got a Flyrant in there as part of the charge, job's done. The Kraken Triple Flyrant is actually really good now, because all 3 Flyrants actually have a decent chance of making it in. Previously we were looking at like 40% or sub 40% chances to make that charge, with the new spell, Hive Pack, and Hive Instinct strategem, triple Flyrant charges have a huge chance of actually making it in. Problems on a big tank target like Knights and Vehicles that need a little more creative charging to secure, or that Adrenal Gland relic. Behemoth's got the same without the spell, being really good for diffused charging (kinda like GSC FAE vs PA arguments.) and making drop pod monsters really good. I mean, I'm legit afraid of a Toxicrene out of a pod charge with a 3d6 reroll charge drop, stopping frickin Repulsors from getting away on a 3+. I was thinking if we're just as afraid of a Toxi + Mally pod charge, but I'm really undecided about the Mally. Then you get a unit of Genestealers/Hormagants sent up by the Swarmlord just gunking up the board and saying AW YEA -1 TO HIT FOR EEEEEEVERYBODIEEEEEE! There's really a lot of good stuff here. I'm a little sad that the most prevalent best stuff I saw out of Custom Fleet (a lot of the combos I envisaged wanted Successor Chapter status, so we could get parent fleet spells and strategems) is basically a massive regen Psyker detachment with great casting security and the ability to regen stray wounds every turn for free. Without the ability to take the spells and strategems of the parent fleets, the Custom Fleet doesnt really offer enough to pull people off of the original few, other than for a specific Hormagant/ScyTal based build. There's also this really fringe All Fliers build which can use the Fly -1 to hit and +1 to Hit on charges. Goonhammer mentions the Carnifex Shooting list and how the new Fleet Traits are supposedly good for it - I guess having 1 free reroll for the HVC would help. I wish it was proper Master Artisans though, even if it was in Synapse locked. One thing I like the direction of is that a few of the new buffs are directly tied to SYNAPSE units, which is how I feel this codex should be represented. SYNAPSE as a keyword should be important, and should give big buffs to the whole unit, rather than just 1 unit. Some of the examples were really good hits in the right direction, IMO. Not all, but some. |
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Post by kurtangle2 on Dec 1, 2019 18:31:32 GMT
A trygon prime in a vacuum alone,no. But a trygon prime bringing along some warriors or devilgants, a pod bringing down a toxicrene or a haruspex ready to charge with 3d6 and rerolls, a mawloc to push an unnatural amount of mw for its points, exocrines to move + shoot with exploding 5's and 6's and no penalties, flyrants with 26" devourers, and quite possibly next to a bunch of slingshotted stealers? New nids bask in plurality and having too many fronts for an opponent to account for everything. If you can't see that, then maybe you are not that omnipotent in Tyranids as you try to claim. And get shot off the board by Centurions? Of the things you said the only thing worths a try are Toxicrene in a Pod for the melee locking stratagems, Exocrine with shooting bufs and Flyrant with Relic + MW Physiology, others are lacking in every department EVEN with the buffs given by Blood of Baal |
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Post by kociamafia on Dec 1, 2019 18:39:15 GMT
A trygon prime with Monsterous Weapons Will more than likely kick the (please do not swear) out of anything you want now, esp if you pay for sacs and give him the Relic for 5+ wounds granting mw's, and IIRC there is a strat for +1 wound on the charge? thats 4+mws iirc... crazy powerful It's unmodified 5s, so never any better than a 5+ for those mortal wounds. I dont think the T-gon Prime needs it though. Assuming you pop the MWW on him, it's 6A(or 7?) of S8, 3+ to hit, -4ap and 4D. Assuming all hit and all wounds (very ambitious but easy to calc), and no invul, you're looking at 5-6 x 4 = 20-24W. As Behemoth, you can actually stack the +1W and the special Scytal relic on it, for base wound on 2+ (you're basically trading reroll wound for +1 wound so you could use reroll wound on someone else), with 1 extra A wounding on 3+. If you got a Flyrant in there as part of the charge, job's done. The Kraken Triple Flyrant is actually really good now, because all 3 Flyrants actually have a decent chance of making it in. Previously we were looking at like 40% or sub 40% chances to make that charge, with the new spell, Hive Pack, and Hive Instinct strategem, triple Flyrant charges have a huge chance of actually making it in. Problems on a big tank target like Knights and Vehicles that need a little more creative charging to secure, or that Adrenal Gland relic. Behemoth's got the same without the spell, being really good for diffused charging (kinda like GSC FAE vs PA arguments.) and making drop pod monsters really good. I mean, I'm legit afraid of a Toxicrene out of a pod charge with a 3d6 reroll charge drop, stopping frickin Repulsors from getting away on a 3+. I was thinking if we're just as afraid of a Toxi + Mally pod charge, but I'm really undecided about the Mally. Then you get a unit of Genestealers/Hormagants sent up by the Swarmlord just gunking up the board and saying AW YEA -1 TO HIT FOR EEEEEEVERYBODIEEEEEE! There's really a lot of good stuff here. I'm a little sad that the most prevalent best stuff I saw out of Custom Fleet (a lot of the combos I envisaged wanted Successor Chapter status, so we could get parent fleet spells and strategems) is basically a massive regen Psyker detachment with great casting security and the ability to regen stray wounds every turn for free. Without the ability to take the spells and strategems of the parent fleets, the Custom Fleet doesnt really offer enough to pull people off of the original few, other than for a specific Hormagant/ScyTal based build. There's also this really fringe All Fliers build which can use the Fly -1 to hit and +1 to Hit on charges. Goonhammer mentions the Carnifex Shooting list and how the new Fleet Traits are supposedly good for it - I guess having 1 free reroll for the HVC would help. I wish it was proper Master Artisans though, even if it was in Synapse locked. One thing I like the direction of is that a few of the new buffs are directly tied to SYNAPSE units, which is how I feel this codex should be represented. SYNAPSE as a keyword should be important, and should give big buffs to the whole unit, rather than just 1 unit. Some of the examples were really good hits in the right direction, IMO. Not all, but some. Im still wrapping my head around this. Im sure people will find some interesting wombo-combos, but nothing really jumps our to me screaming "USE THIS NOW!". People give examples of 2+ warriors ignoring AP -2 & while it s all fine and dandy... Warriors dont really have output & will still get mulched in CC. The Carnifex list Goonhammer mentioned looks reasonable, but you dont need to kill the fexes - Just bad touch them ya know...  |
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 1, 2019 18:39:55 GMT
For the record, I do agree with kurtangel that a Trygon Prime is probably not going to be a competitive choice. Its expensive-ish, with a D6 weapon with no minimum 3 - when you need it to swing high, its going to swing low, and leave you cursing. My WK gameplan has the same issue, hence why it sinks all 4 shots into the same target, or takes a Fateful Divergence with him.
Deepstrike charges are STILL problematic - GSC players will know this. While not all flanks are covered, often the IMPORTANT flank is, and without being able to close in on the right target on the DS drop, most melee centric DS Drop strategies die in the water. We'll still need to figure out how to fix that or survive it, hence I believe that a Trygon Prime drop will never be the primary thing. There are better, cheaper, more effective things we can drop, I feel.
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