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Post by 1b2a on Nov 5, 2019 15:40:17 GMT
I would love to tailor a gsc list that has all the stratagems on key units for shooting and melee deep strike, as is the norm of course.
However, It's quite difficult to balance this out with the 3 detachment requirements in the tournament scene. I don't see anything worth putting on the ground from gsc because it is too fragile, range too bad, too slow. The options are 2 battalions of nids, and one of gsc, or two battalions of gsc, and one of nids (I need the CP). To get every tool I wish I need the CP of 3 battalions, but I'm left with not enough for 50% in reserve (btw is it by points, I've lost track of the new rules at this point?).
I understand nids pretty well, but I can't figure out what a good cost-effect ground force, to allow me to put all the important stuff in deepstrike, would be. GSC deployed on the ground seems useless and a waste of points, offsetting the efficiency of the stratagem supplemented key units. The state of the game would want me not putting anything, and our range and toughness is bad so it's like you're sacrificing points to have very efficient units that do come down.
How are you going about placing boots on the ground and getting value out of it. I would like to do 2 Batt. of GSC but can't figure a way to do it effectively.
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Post by xsquidz on Nov 5, 2019 15:51:04 GMT
I would love to tailor a gsc list that has all the stratagems on key units for shooting and melee deep strike, as is the norm of course. However, It's quite difficult to balance this out with the 3 detachment requirements in the tournament scene. I don't see anything worth putting on the ground from gsc because it is too fragile, range too bad, too slow. The options are 2 battalions of nids, and one of gsc, or two battalions of gsc, and one of nids (I need the CP). To get every tool I wish I need the CP of 3 battalions, but I'm left with not enough for 50% in reserve (btw is it by points, I've lost track of the new rules at this point?). I understand nids pretty well, but I can't figure out what a good cost-effect ground force, to allow me to put all the important stuff in deepstrike, would be. GSC deployed on the ground seems useless and a waste of points, offsetting the efficiency of the stratagem supplemented key units. The state of the game would want me not putting anything, and our range and toughness is bad so it's like you're sacrificing points to have very efficient units that do come down. How are you going about placing boots on the ground and getting value out of it. I would like to do 2 Batt. of GSC but can't figure a way to do it effectively. What I normally do is have a nid Kraken battallion of 2 broodlords and 3*3 rippers all deployed (if I bring nids) as well as a nexos and 3*3 mortar teams. That is all stuff that can hide out of LOS and the mortars might even do some damage. If anything gets close the broodlords charge out to murder them and the rippers can move, advance, double the advance and use metabolic overdrive and just rocket onto an objective if I need them to. Then you put 3 big blip units back into DS and that alone can be 1/2 your units deployed and 1/2 your points and then 500+ plus in those 3 blips going back into DS, whether its abberants, rock saw acolytes or a flamer acolyte bomb. |
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Post by 1b2a on Nov 5, 2019 16:02:22 GMT
What I normally do is have a nid Kraken battallion of 2 broodlords and 3*3 rippers all deployed (if I bring nids) as well as a nexos and 3*3 mortar teams. That is all stuff that can hide out of LOS and the mortars might even do some damage. If anything gets close the broodlords charge out to murder them and the rippers can move, advance, double the advance and use metabolic overdrive and just rocket onto an objective if I need them to. Then you put 3 big blip units back into DS and that alone can be 1/2 your units deployed and 1/2 your points and then 500+ plus in those 3 blips going back into DS, whether its abberants, rock saw acolytes or a flamer acolyte bomb. So you're rocking 2 battalions and a heavy support detachment? Not sure about how blips are used. You're using blips for deploying them on the field, but then removing them with a stratagem or nexos ability? So if you have a gsc battalion you can blip them to qualify for the 50/50 and then remove them to cheat it a little bit? I don't have the book, but this sounds quite clever so far |
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Post by xsquidz on Nov 5, 2019 16:21:54 GMT
What I normally do is have a nid Kraken battallion of 2 broodlords and 3*3 rippers all deployed (if I bring nids) as well as a nexos and 3*3 mortar teams. That is all stuff that can hide out of LOS and the mortars might even do some damage. If anything gets close the broodlords charge out to murder them and the rippers can move, advance, double the advance and use metabolic overdrive and just rocket onto an objective if I need them to. Then you put 3 big blip units back into DS and that alone can be 1/2 your units deployed and 1/2 your points and then 500+ plus in those 3 blips going back into DS, whether its abberants, rock saw acolytes or a flamer acolyte bomb. So you're rocking 2 battalions and a heavy support detachment? Not sure about how blips are used. You're using blips for deploying them on the field, but then removing them with a stratagem or nexos ability? So if you have a gsc battalion you can blip them to qualify for the 50/50 and then remove them to cheat it a little bit? I don't have the book, but this sounds quite clever so far I am using triple battalion. 2 GSC and 1 nid but often I just do 3 GSC. Yes, the blips let you get past the 50% rule. I had one list that in 2K points had 999 in DS to start and three blips would go back into DS worth about 600+ points so I wouldn't only have 300-400 of points on the table which is pretty easy to hide and keep safe . That only works if you have 3 large units that are worth alot of points, but the 3 I mentioned above all work as does a 15 man bike unit, 12 bikes and 3 quads. "They came from below" is I think what the strat is called that allows 3 blips to go back into DS, but now they have to come onto the table before the end of T3. |
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Post by 1b2a on Nov 5, 2019 18:17:20 GMT
So you're rocking 2 battalions and a heavy support detachment? Not sure about how blips are used. You're using blips for deploying them on the field, but then removing them with a stratagem or nexos ability? So if you have a gsc battalion you can blip them to qualify for the 50/50 and then remove them to cheat it a little bit? I don't have the book, but this sounds quite clever so far I am using triple battalion. 2 GSC and 1 nid but often I just do 3 GSC. Yes, the blips let you get past the 50% rule. I had one list that in 2K points had 999 in DS to start and three blips would go back into DS worth about 600+ points so I wouldn't only have 300-400 of points on the table which is pretty easy to hide and keep safe . That only works if you have 3 large units that are worth alot of points, but the 3 I mentioned above all work as does a 15 man bike unit, 12 bikes and 3 quads. "They came from below" is I think what the strat is called that allows 3 blips to go back into DS, but now they have to come onto the table before the end of T3. Really great stuff. Thanks! |
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Post by xsquidz on Nov 5, 2019 18:20:24 GMT
I am using triple battalion. 2 GSC and 1 nid but often I just do 3 GSC. Yes, the blips let you get past the 50% rule. I had one list that in 2K points had 999 in DS to start and three blips would go back into DS worth about 600+ points so I wouldn't only have 300-400 of points on the table which is pretty easy to hide and keep safe . That only works if you have 3 large units that are worth alot of points, but the 3 I mentioned above all work as does a 15 man bike unit, 12 bikes and 3 quads. "They came from below" is I think what the strat is called that allows 3 blips to go back into DS, but now they have to come onto the table before the end of T3. Really great stuff. Thanks! No problem, this is from a super competitive POV as well. if you are playing against some friends for fun, then put some rock grinders on the board (in blips) as well filled with acolytes and demo charges, they are really fun just average at best, the rockgrinders die too fast but the model is SO cool looking. |
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Post by hivefleetkerrigan on Nov 5, 2019 18:32:07 GMT
I have two general strategies for having an effective ground presence.
Nid/GSC soup:
I create a jormungandr battalion with neurothropes, 3 rippers and as many points in shooty carnifex that I can spare. The carnifex create a hard to move presence and can be configured for screen clearing or for antivehicle + screen clearing. They slowly move up the board popping threats as need be.
Pure GSC:
Bladed cog:
Neophytes + magus + iconward + patriarch + alphus. They can all hide in a big ruin and pop out and start shooting big threats. They're a bit hard to remove completely due to all the buffs.
Hive cult:
Same as above, but add in their chilling efficiency strategem + warlord trait to get them to 2+ rerolling 1s. The hive cult idea is untested.
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Post by kazetanade on Nov 5, 2019 18:45:59 GMT
I have had discussions for 100 Neophytes starting on the line, tied to a Patty and Iconward for Fearless 5+ 6++ 6+++. The 6++ 6+++ gets good on 100 models, and each unit carries 1 Laser 1 Grenade Launcher to actually do stuff instead of just being an eyesore for enemies.
You can make them units of 20, maybe easier unit / points / daisy chain management/ scoring denial.
That aside, I'm currently doing triple GSC Batt, starting 6 BBs and some characters and 3 units that get pulled back into reserves from the strategem. I start around 10 on the board and 10 on deep strike. I have most trouble balancing drops when I want flexibility of both DS option and start on ground run across table (it catches people by surprise) due to the character buffs required and the number of things you can pull into reserves. Your max is an Abby and 3 characters, which you then also have to figure what will you pull into DS instead or if at all.
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Post by hiveoverall on Nov 6, 2019 10:21:38 GMT
RC bikes are ok to put in the ground if you have enough of them. You just need to beware of enemy units which can delete them easy in close combat.
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Post by xsquidz on Nov 6, 2019 12:18:52 GMT
RC bikes are ok to put in the ground if you have enough of them. You just need to beware of enemy units which can delete them easy in close combat. Nothing should be able to charge your GSC T1, then you can move the bikes away if needed (and advance if you REALLY need to protect them). At worst from T2 onward people can then DS 9" away and charge you. T1 put some blips on the edge of your deployment zone (the 3 fake ones that will go back into DS) and create another 3 fake ones if needed with that other strat and then deploy your real stuff at least 3" back from that. That way, even if they have drop pods they appear 9" away from blip #1 but over 12" away from the blip #2 which is real and then they can't even declare a charge. Works so well on things like Gallants as well! Even if they get pluses to charge, you can only declare if you are within 12" with a few rare exceptions. |
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Post by mule on Nov 6, 2019 14:53:29 GMT
Blips and bladed cog, abuse los and character rules.
Lots of examples on youtube on how to do it. If they push up the board they open themselves up to ambushes. (Besides marine lists with infiltrators.)
Use aberants to bait people into pushing out and trying to kill them.
Make sure when you have characters pop out you screen them with guard/brood brothers.
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Post by xsquidz on Nov 6, 2019 17:34:51 GMT
Blips and bladed cog, abuse los and character rules. Lots of examples on youtube on how to do it. If they push up the board they open themselves up to ambushes. (Besides marine lists with infiltrators.) Use aberants to bait people into pushing out and trying to kill them. Make sure when you have characters pop out you screen them with guard/brood brothers. Oh yeah, I had a game where 2 of those new marine suits infiltrated 9" away from me and I left mortars in a ruin within range (9") on purpose but out of LOS so he could charge them (which he failed anyways) but I had abberants set to counter charge them. Since he failed, I stayed inside the building (so he could not overwatch me) and I charged both with the abberants and crushed them. Good times! |
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Post by gigasnail on Nov 6, 2019 18:40:43 GMT
However, It's quite difficult to balance this out with the 3 detachment requirements in the tournament scene. just to be clear, there isn't a requirement to have 3 detachments (at least, for any tournament i've heard of). there is a 3 detachment limit. i bet i'm just misreading what you're saying but i wanted to be sure. |
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Post by 1b2a on Nov 6, 2019 19:47:08 GMT
However, It's quite difficult to balance this out with the 3 detachment requirements in the tournament scene. just to be clear, there isn't a requirement to have 3 detachments (at least, for any tournament i've heard of). there is a 3 detachment limit. i bet i'm just misreading what you're saying but i wanted to be sure. We're on the same page, I think I throught hat in there bcuase it would be easier to do 2 bat gsc and 2 bat nids |
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Post by xsquidz on Nov 6, 2019 20:22:23 GMT
just to be clear, there isn't a requirement to have 3 detachments (at least, for any tournament i've heard of). there is a 3 detachment limit. i bet i'm just misreading what you're saying but i wanted to be sure. We're on the same page, I think I throught hat in there bcuase it would be easier to do 2 bat gsc and 2 bat nids The problem with that is the HQ slot starts to get expensive (with 4 battalions I mean-if it was even allowed at 2K). Another thing that works well is a brigade of GSC and then a battallion of nids (or more GSC). GSC has some decent stuff in almost every slot that is cheap, like the bikes for fast (even armoured sentinels are decent to just sit on an objective-hard to move them with small arms fire) , mortars for heavy, amazing HQs/Troops and Elites. |
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