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Post by purestrain on Oct 16, 2019 21:14:04 GMT
I always run abby in my armies, they're so good for my meta and we're aggressively destructive in the two games I got in before they reversed the faq about the scoring two hits both counting as 6s... boy they hit hard those games!
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Post by 1b2a on Oct 17, 2019 13:13:37 GMT
Best in Faction posted on their Facebook page today that there were 9 GTs/majors last weekend, of the 36 top 4 placings, 24 were space marines! Of those, 18 were iron hands! Of the 9 events, iron hands won 7 and white scars won 1! And I'm sure we've all seen that pic from BFS GT X (whatever that is) showing Iron Hands in the top 4 spots. Mate and I debating whether this has broken the game worse than Castellans did? (please do not swear) me! Those numbers mean it's much worse than the Catellan. I've been saying Space Marines need to be good, but this is crazy. It's like saying we need a little rain so GW blows up the dam and floods the valley. "You asked for it, you said things were a bit dry!" Maybe don't jump on the "other races are weak" hype train when ours sucks |
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Post by 1b2a on Oct 17, 2019 13:17:10 GMT
Maxed damage 1 is a good answer to iron hands. It ignores their damage reduction and usually isnt good enough ap to care about the 5++. Throw enough at it and the efficiency isn't half bad. I took out Repulsors and Stormhawk/talons with double firing hand flamers with re-roll to wound. Sure my tyranid brethren can achieve something similar with devourers, genestealers, smites always a good shout too. Especially on the fliers who dont often have anything to hide behind. Remember these damage 1 spamming units tend to be big hordes too. So board control is in your favour, play the mission and win on points while you are at it. Double firing hand flamers and reroll to wound? Wounding on 6s? Rerolling to wound on hand flamers or claws? |
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Post by killercroc on Oct 17, 2019 13:23:52 GMT
Maxed damage 1 is a good answer to iron hands. It ignores their damage reduction and usually isnt good enough ap to care about the 5++. Throw enough at it and the efficiency isn't half bad. I took out Repulsors and Stormhawk/talons with double firing hand flamers with re-roll to wound. Sure my tyranid brethren can achieve something similar with devourers, genestealers, smites always a good shout too. Especially on the fliers who dont often have anything to hide behind. Remember these damage 1 spamming units tend to be big hordes too. So board control is in your favour, play the mission and win on points while you are at it. Out of curiosity, did you Lying in wait ambush the Acolytes 3" and use the Bladed Cog WL to get re-rolls to wound, Perfect ambush and use that against a flyer? I'm just seeing if there were other ways to get re-rolls I might have missed out on. |
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Post by xsquidz on Oct 17, 2019 14:28:44 GMT
Maxed damage 1 is a good answer to iron hands. It ignores their damage reduction and usually isnt good enough ap to care about the 5++. Throw enough at it and the efficiency isn't half bad. I took out Repulsors and Stormhawk/talons with double firing hand flamers with re-roll to wound. Sure my tyranid brethren can achieve something similar with devourers, genestealers, smites always a good shout too. Especially on the fliers who dont often have anything to hide behind. Remember these damage 1 spamming units tend to be big hordes too. So board control is in your favour, play the mission and win on points while you are at it. Out of curiosity, did you Lying in wait ambush the Acolytes 3" and use the Bladed Cog WL to get re-rolls to wound, Perfect ambush and use that against a flyer? I'm just seeing if there were other ways to get re-rolls I might have missed out on. That is the only way to get full re-rolls I am 99% sure in the GSC book, however the primus can pick another unit and re-roll 1's at least, its not much for flamers but great for rock saws. |
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Post by killercroc on Oct 17, 2019 14:45:14 GMT
So what's the plan for rock saws? I have been looking about adding them into my cult (I bought Guard size magnets so I'm going to magnetize all the special weapons just in case drills or snippers get better) and short of IH they're still viable against marines. Even without the psychic buff for A/S it's still 2 chain fists per 5 models without -1 so it's good vs infantry or tanks. Are they the go to for cult? And how do we get them there? Is it assumed they're 4AE for that +1 to charge, character for +2, chain them back to primus if he fails his charge? Are there other ways for combat bombs? I want to stick with bladed cog so not sure if I should focus points in Mining laser/Seismic cannon neophytes to drop and do damage however I already have something like... maybe 60 Acolytes so if I can find a way to make BG Acos good then I am down.
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Post by xsquidz on Oct 17, 2019 15:06:40 GMT
So what's the plan for rock saws? I have been looking about adding them into my cult (I bought Guard size magnets so I'm going to magnetize all the special weapons just in case drills or snippers get better) and short of IH they're still viable against marines. Even without the psychic buff for A/S it's still 2 chain fists per 5 models without -1 so it's good vs infantry or tanks. Are they the go to for cult? And how do we get them there? Is it assumed they're 4AE for that +1 to charge, character for +2, chain them back to primus if he fails his charge? Are there other ways for combat bombs? I want to stick with bladed cog so not sure if I should focus points in Mining laser/Seismic cannon neophytes to drop and do damage however I already have something like... maybe 60 Acolytes so if I can find a way to make BG Acos good then I am down. Dood, rock saws are the bomb. I bring 3 units of 20 with 8 each. With full buffs 1 unit of 20 can deal ON AVERAGE 64 wounds to imperial knights in a turn, that is one unit and I have 3 of them. You appear 9 inches away then use "a perfect ambush" to move D6 closer and CP that if you need to, even just get a 3+ is huge. Now you are 6" away and with a clamivus its now 5 and with vigilus you can re-roll charges or still CP one dice if needed. You don't need CO4AE so go bladed cogs for the exploding 5's strat. So the 8 saws (with might from beyond) get 24 attacks, exploding 5's, so that is roughly 32 attacks (actually more since you hit on 2's BUT re-roll 1's) and then wound on 2's due to Str 12 saws (Might from beyond and Icon banner) then use the vigilus strat for +1 to wound and its wounding on 2's. Re-roll 1's vs 1 knight and re-roll ALL vs another knight with a bladed cog primus. Then those acolytes have a 6++ due to bladed cog and 6+++ due to the iconward so they might survive and if they don't, oh well, you have 2 more units like that. A lot of people take 10 or 20 abberants because they are more survivable but then still take a rock saw unit to MURDER things. A lot of people take smaller units of 10 with 4 saws, I think the 20 with 8 is so much better because all the strats, psyker powers then effect that whole massive unit. In a team event recently I went against knights and in T2 I killed 2 with one and unit and he was like WTF... I do the same thing to 3 wound aggressors, even with FNP 2 rock saw hits should kill 1 aggressor. Use terrain to avoid overwatch if you can, but also mass hypnosis, take the ignores overwatch relic if you need to, use our vect to get rid of Auspex scan if you need to but mainly try to hide behind terrain when you land, they have to shoot you with auspex scan BEFORE you move the D6 inches closer and then into LOS for the charge. The 20 man units also make it easier to daisy chain back into the primus/iconward/patriarch bubbles and not lose any good attacks. |
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Post by No One on Oct 17, 2019 15:14:11 GMT
Dood, rock saws are the bomb. I bring 3 units of 20 with 8 each. With full buffs 1 unit of 20 can deal ON AVERAGE 64 wounds to imperial knights in a turn, that is one unit and I have 3 of them. You appear 9 inches away then use "a perfect ambush" to move D6 closer and CP that if you need to, even just get a 3+ is huge. Now you are 6" away and with a clamivus its now 5 and with vigilus you can re-roll charges or still CP one dice if needed. You don't need CO4AE so go bladed cogs for the exploding 5's strat. So the 8 saws (with might from beyond) get 24 attacks, exploding 5's, so that is roughly 32 attacks (actually more since you hit on 2's BUT re-roll 1's) and then wound on 2's due to Str 12 saws (Might from beyond and Icon banner) then use the vigilus strat for +1 to wound and its wounding on 2's. Re-roll 1's vs 1 knight and re-roll ALL vs another knight with a bladed cog primus. Then those acolytes have a 6++ due to bladed cog and 6+++ due to the iconward so they might survive and if they don't, oh well, you have 2 more units like that. A lot of people take 10 or 20 abberants because they are more survivable but then still take a rock saw unit to MURDER things. The reason people don't run that much is it's (usually) incredibly overkill. Like, how often do you need to kill 2 knights, and have good charges on both of them? Also, 3 units starts to run into the whole '2 turns for PA charges' thing, which is why FAE is a thing. Reasoning? I'd have thought they go after: ours says 'immediately', auspex just says 'after'. |
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Post by killercroc on Oct 17, 2019 15:36:12 GMT
So I don't think I'll go full on 3x 20 as that's a lot of points and leaving less options elsewhere. Other issue is I personally refuse to use those specialist detachments, frankly they're unbalanced and if I have a choice I'm aiming to play as balanced as possible. But the PA is nice, I do think it's a bit spendy at 3 CP but with the Clamivus that does let one unit hit something they drastically need to. My opponents tend to have one big unit or cluster of buffing so if I can hit home with them and slaughter some things t hat'll be nice. 20 with 8x saws & banner, Clam and Pri is 365 points and that's a perfect amount of points to take out my opponents cluster units, spending T1/T2 clearing chaff if need be to ensure a good charge.
Heck the only issue is there are so many good relics its hard to pick from them all! The banner is great for Aco/Abby bombs but other relic like Void sword is good for Primus to make him darn mean, we're spoiled for choice!
I don't often fight Knights but there is often enough big things for me to worry about, I think at the very least a single unit of 20 will be needed every game.
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Post by 1b2a on Oct 17, 2019 15:43:25 GMT
Can you cast catalyst on acolytes/gsc? I thought you couldn't. Then someone said I could, but it felt like cheating.
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Post by killercroc on Oct 17, 2019 15:55:34 GMT
No you cannot, Catalyst is pure Tyranids only. We don't do any of that degenerate psychic mixing like Chaos does.
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Post by xsquidz on Oct 17, 2019 17:08:21 GMT
Dood, rock saws are the bomb. I bring 3 units of 20 with 8 each. With full buffs 1 unit of 20 can deal ON AVERAGE 64 wounds to imperial knights in a turn, that is one unit and I have 3 of them. You appear 9 inches away then use "a perfect ambush" to move D6 closer and CP that if you need to, even just get a 3+ is huge. Now you are 6" away and with a clamivus its now 5 and with vigilus you can re-roll charges or still CP one dice if needed. You don't need CO4AE so go bladed cogs for the exploding 5's strat. So the 8 saws (with might from beyond) get 24 attacks, exploding 5's, so that is roughly 32 attacks (actually more since you hit on 2's BUT re-roll 1's) and then wound on 2's due to Str 12 saws (Might from beyond and Icon banner) then use the vigilus strat for +1 to wound and its wounding on 2's. Re-roll 1's vs 1 knight and re-roll ALL vs another knight with a bladed cog primus. Then those acolytes have a 6++ due to bladed cog and 6+++ due to the iconward so they might survive and if they don't, oh well, you have 2 more units like that. A lot of people take 10 or 20 abberants because they are more survivable but then still take a rock saw unit to MURDER things. The reason people don't run that much is it's (usually) incredibly overkill. Like, how often do you need to kill 2 knights, and have good charges on both of them? Also, 3 units starts to run into the whole '2 turns for PA charges' thing, which is why FAE is a thing. Reasoning? I'd have thought they go after: ours says 'immediately', auspex just says 'after'. Auspex scan says as soon as a unit appears within 12", then you ask them do you want to auspex scan me if they do you can then bring in a different unit place them 9" away and then move them D6 forward instead. The key is you have to place the unit 9" away first BEFORE you move up the D6". Since its your turn and they both happen at the same time you can tell them they have to decide first-you don't declare the strat before you bring the unit it, your bring them in place them and can then choose to use it. If you ask them and they don't auspex scan, you could move only another unit and have it move forward the D6. I once had to sacrifice a kelermorph by letting them auspex scan it since it was threatening a key character and then I brought in a rock saw unit and moved it D6 forward for the real damage. Did the same thing versus eldar, they can only forewarning if a farseer is alive, and is within 6" of the unit, so drop a kelermorph beside the farseer, if they don't forewarning it, you can fire in the movement phase, kill the farseer and no more forewarning-don't be afraid to tell your opponent you can do this and they are more likely to waste the forewarning on a kelermorph. Its an extreme example but I can tell you I have done it in games and it works. You need all the tricks with GSC. The 20 man bomb with 8 saws can kill a lot more then 2 knights a turn. I had them once kill 3 ravagers that were tucked in a corner all in one turn, or pop multiple transports. Just because its a 20 man doesn't mean it can only kill one target, I often spread them out and charge like 3-5 targets, and not charge another but surround/trap it if you can. So overkill a few things and trap something small. In another game against IH I took away aggressors overwatch and charged/killed 5 of them, plus a techpriest, and a librarian all with one unit. A 20 man is so much easier to daisy chain back and then you don't have to waste a warlord trait on the extra 3" aura one. Plus if they leave even 1 guy alive in a 20 man that has a 5+, 6++, 6+++ (so not tough but not super easy to kill) then you leave the fearless one alive that is chained back and hopefully out of LOS and bring back D6 rocksaws in your next movement phase for 1 CP.  |
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Post by brianb9999 on Oct 17, 2019 17:18:34 GMT
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Post by killercroc on Oct 17, 2019 17:29:21 GMT
Wow... GW nerfing something Marines. Honestly I'd never think I'd see the day.
Basically...
Only 1 character dread, Ironstone only works on 1 vehicle, no stacking vehicle fixing, and a few strats went up. Guess we will see if it balances things out but it seems good.
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Post by nidzy on Oct 17, 2019 17:30:30 GMT
Hahahahaha. They ran that (please do not swear) into the ground real quick. |
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