Large ripper units

[kelermorph]

I was wondering if any of you guys have tried full 9 base ripper swarm units and what’s your opinion about those? Three bases is the norm I know, but I started thinking 9 bases in a single unit might have some uses. I mean they aren’t going to make a whole lot of damage, but they do have an inate deep strike and they are so small they can be easy to hide even in a big unit.

Why 9 in a single unit and not 3 separate you ask? Well some events use kill points and even those that don’t usually have some tactical objective cards or something that reward killing whole units. So multiple throwaway units of rippers give away points easier. And let’s face it, rippers are only used for either objective grabbing or DS-denial, and I think a unit of 9 rippers would potentially be a pain to remove from an objective. Cast catalyst on them for additional laughs! When it comes to DS-denial three units of three are probably better sure, but it’s situational.

What are your thoughts on this?

[onewiththehive]

just be carefull if they are out of synapse. morale tests are really ugly on those little bugs. usually if i loose one model of those 3, i will fail the test and the other 2 will run away. in larger groups thats even easier. harder to hide and 2 or 3 lascannon shots will ruin your day. Your opponent can either afford those shots on rippers, cause every other target is already dead or everything else can't be targeted. I would always keep them as cheap as possible. they often won me whole games and they are cheap battalion fillers

[hivefleetkerrigan]

I generally use my rippers for detatchment filler so maxing them out doesn't really cross my mind. If say 9 times out of 10 you're better off with units of 3. However, test it out and let us know how it goes!

[gigasnail]

With so much cheap multi damage weaponry around? Yeah I dunno.

[blindmage]

All Rippers all the time!

Just kidding, I have no idea how they run in 8th.

[kelermorph]

Sept 28, 2019 23:11:01 GMT gigasnail said:

With so much cheap multi damage weaponry around? Yeah I dunno.

Well I’d rather those multi damage weapons targeted my rippers instead of my big baddies. Synapse is a thing sure, but if that’s covered all shots targetting these are well recieved. They are the cheapest wounds in our book after all.

A large unit of rippers might be sort of a distraction unit as well. And having one large unit does not rule out having a couple of small units fot detachment fillers if you have the the models for it.

I sure will try this out in the near future, but theoryhammering in this thread is still more than welcome.

[gigasnail]

It's not like they can't do both. There's more than enough firepower to go around.

And killing off your rippers is killing off your obsec troops; dont give them another reason and make it easier. Half the charm of rippers is small units of them are easy to hide.

[naviedzony]

What role in the army would they fulfill in a unit of 9? Too expensive to be detachment filler, too big to hide on the objectives, too squishy to tank anything, too weak to kill somethng vluable.

[terminatoruk]

I've seriously thought about this too and came to the following conclusion as really you need to look at it in terms of Rippers vs Termagants:

Pros:

- For 3 wounds.... A ripper base is 11 points. x3 Termagants with Fleshborers is 12 points. There is marginal points efficiency gain.
- Have 4 attacks v.s. 3 attacks of the Termagants point-for-point
- Virtually 'free' in terms of real world cost - you are getting these as additional models on Termagant / Hormagant / Genestealler sprues which most Tyranid armies will (should?) have in abundance
- Small - rippers are easy to hide behind terrain
- Self-deepstrike - don't need any help to pop up anywhere on the board outside of 9" of the enemy (Termagants would need a Tryon or Jormungandr detachment using 'The Enemy Below' stratagem with Raveners to achieve the same thing)

Cons:

- Mutliple damages of any type (barring mortal wounds) will always favour killing 3w ripper bases as this will always result in wasted overkill damage with 1W Termagants
- WS/BS of 5 with ripper swarms - unlikely to achieve any significant damage at all - even with weight of numbers
- No ranged damage with ripper swarms without paying for it (which would defeat their purpose) - whereas the Teragant has a 12" Str 4 attack
- Limited stratagems - mainly one to get CP after killing a character (which is only going to happen once in a blue moon) v.s. something like Scorch Bugs for +1 to wound for Termagants with Fleshborers
- Lack of Synergy - other than being in Synaspe range for auto morale passing, nothing really buffs them. Big units of Termagants (24-25 vs 9 ripper bases...similar points price) buff themselves with the living ammunition rule (re-roll wounds of 1) and can be spawned by and buffed by (re-roll 1's to hit) a Tervigon.
- Board control - for the same price, you can consume, control and screen much more of the board with a big spaced out blob of 24-25 Termagants than 9 ripper bases could


My take away - keep them in units of 3 purely for sitting on objectives - there won't be a ripper meta anytime soon!

[cyaneye]

What about the comparison of skyslashers vs gargoyles? The bases are still 11 points, but trade the ability to deep strike for 12" move. In this case the goal would be tying up a backfield shooting unit in close combat. Would 99p vs 160p be enough to make a difference?

I'm not expecting sky slashers to be necessarily good in any case, but a unit of 9 in a hydra fleet would be hilarious vs a solitary vehicle such as a fire prism.

[gigasnail]

Why? It'll just fall back and keep shooting.

[cyaneye]

Right, fly rule, bad example. Still though, I'd say a fast 99 point distraction unit to tie up a more expensive artillery unit (that ideally can't fly), if it weren't for having to model tiny winged rippers.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I see no reason to run max size ripper swarms. You could give a weak argument for a throwaway hydra unit, but I'd still personally rather use gants.

[kelermorph]

Sept 30, 2019 12:37:21 GMT naviedzony said:

What role in the army would they fulfill in a unit of 9? Too expensive to be detachment filler, too big to hide on the objectives, too squishy to tank anything, too weak to kill somethng vluable.

Well that would depend on the rest of the list obviously, but one that springs to mind is for example in a nidzilla-list they could be used for screening and soaking up damage from multi-damage weapons. Because against a nidzilla-list the enemy is bound to run out of multi-damage weapons at some point, so every shot against the rippers is a win for me. And if they shoot rippers with single-damage weapons then that’s fine also seeing as how they are the cheapest wounds we have.

But alas I’m starting to think that maybe this isn’t such a great idea after all. They would be a deep striking distraction and not much more. Now a deep striking distraction might be useful in some games, but maybe not so often that this would make a lot of sense in the long run. I’m still gonna test this just for fun tho.

[gigasnail]

They wouldn't be running out of multi damage weapons, you'd be running out of models.

[kelermorph]

Sept 30, 2019 20:48:47 GMT gigasnail said:

They wouldn't be running out of multi damage weapons, you'd be running out of models.

It seems your local meta is quite different from mine if you truly think that.