Strategies for beating lord discordant

[hivefleetkerrigan]

What strategies are people using for beating lord discordants?

[zimko]

I've thrown Aberrants at em and the aberrants got mulched. I haven't tried Rocksaws but I'd imagine they do a lot better with AP 4. The downside is that 3 disco lords are commonly paired with other units that also need the rocksaw treatment. And now with chaos knights getting a codex, I expect to see discolords with chaos knights.

So with that in mind, I'm looking at mixing zoanthropes with cult. Smites should hopefully do the trick.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Jul 15, 2019 21:22:09 GMT zimko said:

I've thrown Aberrants at em and the aberrants got mulched. I haven't tried Rocksaws but I'd imagine they do a lot better with AP 4. The downside is that 3 disco lords are commonly paired with other units that also need the rocksaw treatment. And now with chaos knights getting a codex, I expect to see discolords with chaos knights.

So with that in mind, I'm looking at mixing zoanthropes with cult. Smites should hopefully do the trick.

I was running quite a few zoans but they got popped via shooting.

As a note discordants have a 5+ invul so rock saws will work well but not as well as we'd like.

Part of me was thinking mass stealers or carnifex stampede?

[kazetanade]

Shooting them works best. A BC 20 man Aco is suppose to kill it dead with BC rerolls, Primus, and Vigilus - I got 10W, but math says it's suppose to be like 20++, so something weird happened for me.

TBF though Abbys should do just fine vs Discolords. 12A, varying ap, Their damage is all 2d, reduced to 1d, with a 5+ fnp and fight when die - should be a fair trade back in Helix. Assuming all hit all wound all fnp failed you still only lost half a unit, which is about pare for Disco cost.

HG get an approx 8 hits, 6W, 3failes for 6D - shoot twice kills one. Not the best, but if it gets to shoot for 3 turns it's not bad.

[LordPathos]

I'd like a second DiscoLord, but 1 is fine for me right now.

Anyways, I agree with eveything above. Hive Guard and Abbys+Abom should do the trick.

[hivefleetkerrigan]

Thanks for the suggestions!
For abberants, I'm seeing about 7.25 wounds on average for a full unit of picks and claws without buffs. I'd have to do more calculations for different buffs.

As for hive guard, I hadn't thought of them (more on that later). One thing to consider is that the discordants are vehicles. Shock guard deal 8.89 damage on average without double tap.

As for hive guard, I seldom run them as I always seem to roll terribly with them. I've run them about 5 times and think I've done a total of 10 wounds?

[kazetanade]

well... approximates are approximates. It's still a dice game.

For the Abberants I was assuming that Twisted Helix, and they start on the board or get charged with either Might or Icon Banner of S, which would make them S7 base and hence trade really really well. If it's a 5+ to wound then yea, the damage fall off is pretty big. havent calculated it though.

[Master Chief]

The Lord Discordant is not the only problem, a couple of times I had to face a list with 3 Lords and 9 daemon engines, and it really was a pain in the ass!

The only reason I won was the mission. And it was a small victory...

But honesty I don't know how to handle 150 wounds on T7 with 3+/5++.

[killercroc]

Jul 26, 2019 11:33:27 GMT Master Chief said:

The Lord Discordant is not the only problem, a couple of times I had to face a list with 3 Lords and 9 daemon engines, and it really was a pain in the ass!

The only reason I won was the mission. And it was a small victory...

But honesty I don't know how to handle 150 wounds on T7 with 3+/5++.

Spammed daemon engines is countered by spammed shock guard. As a whole 18 shock guard get an average of 36 shots which ends up being roughly 16 mortal wounds and 12 unsaved wounds, so it's 28 wounds a turn vs 150 wounds so they put out enough damage to kill them in 5 turns. Yeah it's in a vacuum but just pointing out shock guard are pretty good counter to them and are far cheaper than the daemon engines, use the rest of the points on buff units and screens, be Kronos and just gun them down.

Or Hormagaunts with toxin sacs, not as fun IMO and a bit harder with low S no AP but TS Hgaunts do cut down the effective wounds on your opponent by half.

[Master Chief]

What you are not considering is that 3 defilers in a couple of rounds of shooting will devastate shock guards in shooting by simply out ranging them meanwhile you have to deal with the remaining 9 daemon engines that are pushing your lines.

And horde is not an answer against them because they really have a lot of attacks in close combat and they are able to kill 200 models in a couple of turns.

You need to be aggressive on them and do as many damages as possible so the vehicle will degrade/die/get worst.

And you cannot play too aggressive the shock guards, because if by any chance something is touching them, they are all dead...

[killercroc]

Defliers ok, a battle cannon with 1 shot, BS 4+ or 3+ next to lord, if they move then -1 to hit. Easy solutions, protect your units with Malenthropes so you're hit at best on a 4+ at worst on a 6+. Deep strike them in, go Jorm for tunnels and keep your stuff safe T1 T2 pop up and blast the biggest targets first. Target the lords even to take away aura buffs, even DSing 24" assault weapon is a big threat bubble and if all they have is 3 Lords and 9 engines they cant block everything. If range is his strength take it away, simple.

Jorm bomb with 3 raveners, shock guard and zoans for smite, go around all of his defenses. Gaunt screens to stop charges too.

[kazetanade]

I have beaten back a variation of that triple Disco triple Deredeo list, with one of Nanavantis double Abby list, but it was not an easy game.

Each Abby squad can kill 3 to 4 Engines if you manage to get them positioned well and the enemy messes up on placement. I managed to get 2 with each Abby, and the 2nd Abby managed to wrap instead of killing blow, so shooting became an issue. The rest were touches on shooting elements to limit his options. The key to it is to kill his melee killing guys ASAP.

As for the other variation with maulerfiends... If they're all melee, they're pretty clumped. You can get one hell of a multicharge, kill 2, Fight again to kill another 2.

Edit: actually they can block Assault 24"... 9" to 9" creates a 27" bubble on the outer rim.

[killercroc]

Jul 26, 2019 16:46:30 GMT kazetanade said:

Edit: actually they can block Assault 24"... 9" to 9" creates a 27" bubble on the outer rim.

But the lord only has a 6" aura so if they're creating a 27" bubble none of them will get a lord buff making them less effective. Unless I am mistaken, correct?

[kazetanade]

No , you're right, that comes down to how smart your opponent is in recognising whether he needs that buff or he needs to make sure your charges are ineffective.

If he keeps them clumped and the Abbys come in, go to town.

But basically if I see a Jorg drop, I'd leave the least important Engines on the outer fringe, and keep the important ones at that 27" approx. Once the jorg drop is down, then I consolidate into buff ranges if I need it, or just go to town if I don't.

9" to 9" circles cover a ridiculous amount of ground and if you can't force him to clump, all deepstrike strategies we have start to crumble under that sort of map pressure. If you can force him to clump, then it's not so much an issue.

[killercroc]

If they did that I'd actually suggest dropping the bomb and focusing on the outer engines, you should easily be able to kill at least 2 engines doing that, 3 if you double tap. They might be the "weaker" engines but if a list is 9 engines and 3 lords and you can pop two engines the turn they show up that's still a big hit to the list. 9 by 9 is a big area but if you're shooting at range you don't need to get all that close, it's more so for the abby hammer swings. I mean, Shock guard are a good counter to mech but they are $ intensive, guard aren't cheap on the wallet so getting 18 is hard, 3 abbys is much cheaper. So instead of guard maybe try Abbys and saw acolytes for this scenario? I don't think demo bikers are the go to for this one.

There are some negatives to being spread too thin so I guess it comes down to the list, the board and the mission.