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Post by dandc on Dec 23, 2018 8:51:56 GMT
I caught a throwaway comment about this in one of the many, many analyses of the post CA meta I've been reading and listening to. They said that grey knights and deathwatch had some potential as allies. I love the aesthetic of both factions but have never played either one. Would love to put them on the tabletop together.
Nothing stopping me just doing it, of course, but I like to be at least slightly competitive.
I plan on doing the legwork to see if I can figure this out for myself, but it would be nice to get a head start if anyone has any idea how this might work? At first glance they seem to have the exact same weaknesses (low model count, lack of long range shooting etc).
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Post by mattblowers on Dec 23, 2018 12:10:17 GMT
If you are looking for competitive I'd pass. These are two trash codexes, I mean really awful because of how elite their models are. Points drop certainly helped but allying them together is playing the game on legendary fighter mode.
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Post by No One on Dec 23, 2018 12:32:32 GMT
but allying them together is playing the game on legendary fighter mode. ...I'd be very surprised if that's what was meant. As opposed to the normal 'take a small det in IG/knights soup'. Which...could work? While I don't really know either (played DW once, GK never), GK don't really seem to offer anything to other armies. DW, however, could have use as a single unit hit squad: DS in and delete a unit with frags/plasma, then be obnoxious to get rid of with 2+/3++ wound allocation shenanigans, as well as fall back and shoot/charge. Now, still too expensive to do this effectively? Maybe. Good enough at this, especially with beta reserves, to pressure out smash caps/shield caps from a similar role? Doubt it.
If that's what was meant, yes, agreed that it doesn't make any sense: similar strengths (bar psychic), similar weaknesses, no real synergy or support.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Dec 23, 2018 15:03:09 GMT
IMO these two factions are 2 of the most changed in 8th.
Grey Knights are allied for daemon killing
Deathwatch is allied for Xenos killing
As it should be. Gone are the days of Grey Knights being better at killing everything, and Deathwatch the same.
Grey Knights have had a lot of thunder stolen because they WERE the all stars, until Deathwatch came to be. Then they had to share roles with one psychic/melee and the other with SIA. Then Custodes came out and sealed the coffin.
Everyone suffers from the allied structure in 8th but I can't see how any army IS SUPPOSED to be pure. Especially with this elite.
The Imperium is akin to the American military in divisions. The navy gets help from the air force, who gets help from the marines etc. This is baked into 8th edition for everyone. You are SUPPOSED to have allied. Built right into the foundation of 8th's mechanics of rules for paint.
Cherry pick.
1 or 2 kill teams
A couple Nemesis Dreads
Sprinkling of Militarum
Voila.
I personally think these are still 2 of the scariest basic troops there are. Nothing short of Custodes will compare.
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Post by kazetanade on Dec 23, 2018 20:36:27 GMT
230 points for 40 S5 -1ap shots, then 21 S4 -2ap hits, or 11 S5 -3ap hits. Juuuuust saying.
'course, the DW version of this is way more broken.
Putting it together, I'd have to say 20 or 30 marine bodies blocking movement out of enemy deployment zone is not that easy to shift. DW do it even harder with 3++ wound allocation shenanigans, but GK frickin fight back with a vengeance in melee.
My opinion? You bring GK when you want to shut down enemy Psychic. 30 marines, Draigo, GKNDK, fill the rest with Knights AM or whatever. If you want to be troll, do Purifiers for 5+ Smite on next to no range. They just suffer the Warrior problem - gotta be both shooting and meeleing to make back points, at which point they just got awesome.
DW is just a single scary drop. Really nothing else to say about it.
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Post by LordPathos on Dec 23, 2018 21:01:41 GMT
I'm still gonna do a Grey Knight/Sister of Battle army. Been aching to really get down to it.
But it is true, GKs suffer from being Elite. GW put a lot of hype on Paladins getting price reductions, but its only by 6 points. I'll take it, but I was hoping for something much more meaningful. Thankfully, with all the price reductions for characters, I could possibly weasel in another unit of Paladins. So that's not awful.
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Post by nopeace on Dec 28, 2018 18:32:29 GMT
I have a list of 2 deathwatch batallions that have 3 razorbacks filled with storm bolter vets and a gunline of intercessors to sit with a watch master(plus captains and librarians in the razorbacks too) followed up by a Castellan that seems increadibly powerful and fun. Deathwatch might have specialty in killing xenos, but I dont see it as they're main thing. They are the space marines codex you can design to do 1 trick really well, and I think you're likely to see that as gunlines or cheekily deepstriking 3 super squads after the point drops of CA.
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Post by dandc on Jan 4, 2019 10:22:39 GMT
I'm still gonna do a Grey Knight/Sister of Battle army. Been aching to really get down to it. But it is true, GKs suffer from being Elite. GW put a lot of hype on Paladins getting price reductions, but its only by 6 points. I'll take it, but I was hoping for something much more meaningful. Thankfully, with all the price reductions for characters, I could possibly weasel in another unit of Paladins. So that's not awful. I can totally see SoB and GK synthesising. Gunline of Exorcists, retributors and MSU-style sister squads, with elite GK close combat support. |
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Post by dandc on Jan 6, 2019 11:34:36 GMT
Something like:
SoB battalion
Celestine
Canoness
3x 5 sisters with flamers and storm bolters
Rhino
5 seraphim
5 retributors w/heavy bolters
2 exorcists
Guard battalion
Company commander
Primaris psyker or another CC
3x 10 guardsman with mortar teams
Grey Knight Vanguard
Grand master
3x 3 paladins
Stormraven or land raider
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Post by deviousdonut on Feb 6, 2019 19:23:22 GMT
Ive actually been playing deathwatch competitively since June. They absolutely are a finesse army. Im bringing them to LVO this weekend. They got incredibly powerful with the beta bolter rule and chapter approved. Heres my list for reference.
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) [82 PL, 954pts] ++
+ HQ +
Librarian in Terminator Armor [8 PL, 114pts]: Force stave, Storm Bolter
Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]
+ Troops +
Veterans [16 PL, 173pts]
. Biker: Chainsword, Twin boltgun
. Terminator
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol And Chainsword
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Watch Sergeant: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
Veterans [17 PL, 179pts]
. Terminator
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Terminator
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol And Chainsword
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Watch Sergeant: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
Veterans [17 PL, 179pts]
. Terminator
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Terminator
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol And Chainsword
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Watch Sergeant: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
Veterans [17 PL, 179pts]
. Terminator
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Terminator
. . Power Sword and Stormbolter: Power sword, Storm Bolter
. Vanguard Veteran: Bolt Pistol And Chainsword
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Veteran: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
. Watch Sergeant: Storm Bolter, Storm shield
++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [36 PL, 647pts] ++
+ HQ +
Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 234pts]: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon
Rune Priest [7 PL, 122pts]: 1. Living Lightning, 4. Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Bolt pistol, Jump Packs, Runic sword, Saga of the Beastslayer, The Wulfen Stone, Warlord
Rune Priest in Terminator Armour [8 PL, 121pts]: 2. Tempest's Wrath, 4. Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Runic axe, Runic Terminator armour, Storm bolter
+ Elites +
Murderfang [9 PL, 170pts]
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Dark Angels) [26 PL, 399pts] ++
+ HQ +
Librarian in Terminator Armor [8 PL, 110pts]: Force stave
Master [6 PL, 124pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer
+ Troops +
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: 4x Scout (Shotgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: 4x Scout (Shotgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]: 4x Scout (Shotgun)
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
++ Total: [144 PL, 2000pts] ++
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Post by lordsia on Mar 1, 2019 6:10:55 GMT
Deathwatch is actually not bad; Bolter Discipline made them pretty good.
Grey Knights are pretty much a lost cause though; they are intended as a hard counter to Daemons, but if the enemy actually brings the Chaos Daemons to the table, they can respawn any unit killed by GK for 2CP and no Reinforcement Points, which kind of renders the whole point moot.
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