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Post by russellr on Nov 21, 2018 5:41:25 GMT
Hi all,
The Ork FAQ says:
Page 102 – Megatrakk Scrapjets, Abilities
Add the following ability:
‘Grot Gunner: Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made with this model’s twin big shoota.’
The issue is that this model has two twin big shootas, but the text says "shoota" ... if it said "shootas" or "one of this model's twin big shootas" if would be easy. On the model, one is fired by a grot, one by an Ork. Do we apply logic and realise that only one of the guns gets the benefit? I don't even know if RAW would indicate there's only a benefit for one of the guns, or two ...
Help would be appreciated  |
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Post by No One on Nov 21, 2018 6:04:21 GMT
...*Sigh*. I don't even know if RAW would indicate there's only a benefit for one of the guns, or two ... Straight RAW, I'd go benefit for 1: it's single shoota, only one benefits. Now, based on the rest of the text and the fact that 'shoota' vs 'shootas' is a really small typo, RAI for the rule would be that it adds 1 to both. But yeah, guessing what GW wanted based on the model it's still only 1 big shoota. |
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Post by russellr on Nov 21, 2018 7:04:24 GMT
...*Sigh*. I don't even know if RAW would indicate there's only a benefit for one of the guns, or two ... Straight RAW, I'd go benefit for 1: it's single shoota, only one benefits. Now, based on the rest of the text and the fact that 'shoota' vs 'shootas' is a really small typo, RAI for the rule would be that it adds 1 to both. But yeah, guessing what GW wanted based on the model it's still only 1 big shoota.
Thanks, thinking about it more, I'm of the opinion the RAI is to only give one of the twin big shootas because the grot's shooting one of them.
Anyway, I emailed and posted on their Facebook page, so let's see if they reply or update us all
Thanks!
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Post by No One on Nov 21, 2018 7:09:17 GMT
The fact that they updated the big FAQ so quickly leaves me hopeful: they might be leaving off on doing big FAQs only every 6 months, but they might be OK with doing small updates to the existing FAQ to clarify new issues (or something like that). Hopefully.
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Post by bolk on Nov 21, 2018 10:28:06 GMT
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Post by mattblowers on Nov 21, 2018 13:14:59 GMT
Hi all,
The Ork FAQ says:
Page 102 – Megatrakk Scrapjets, Abilities
Add the following ability:
‘Grot Gunner: Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made with this model’s twin big shoota.’
The issue is that this model has two twin big shootas, but the text says "shoota" ... if it said "shootas" or "one of this model's twin big shootas" if would be easy. On the model, one is fired by a grot, one by an Ork. Do we apply logic and realise that only one of the guns gets the benefit? I don't even know if RAW would indicate there's only a benefit for one of the guns, or two ...
Help would be appreciated Just stop it already, GW rules just don't stand up to this level of scrutiny. In every other case, the grots on the vehicle add +1 to hit rolls on a weapon. It reads: "add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made with this model's '_____'."This follows the same template and seems to have been left off the datasheet by mistake. The only difference is that this model has 2 of the weapons it mentions. If you actually shoot according to the way it is layed out in the big rule book, you would shoot each weapon separately. Am I shooting this model's big shoota? If yes, then add 1 to hit rolls.When you fast roll dice you simply roll the dice together to expedite the game. You really want to deny the bonus based on grammar? Come on guys. Straight RAW, I'd go benefit for 1: it's single shoota, only one benefits. Now, based on the rest of the text and the fact that 'shoota' vs 'shootas' is a really small typo, RAI for the rule would be that it adds 1 to both. But yeah, guessing what GW wanted based on the model it's still only 1 big shoota. BOOOOO. For the reason written above. By your reasoning you shouldn't get to do it all all because they left off the s and when you split fire there is no way to determine which shoota is which and which one gets the bonus. It's now a philosophical existential debate, I just want to roll dice and play the game. |
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Post by russellr on Nov 21, 2018 17:39:44 GMT
Hi all,
The Ork FAQ says:
Page 102 – Megatrakk Scrapjets, Abilities
Add the following ability:
‘Grot Gunner: Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made with this model’s twin big shoota.’
The issue is that this model has two twin big shootas, but the text says "shoota" ... if it said "shootas" or "one of this model's twin big shootas" if would be easy. On the model, one is fired by a grot, one by an Ork. Do we apply logic and realise that only one of the guns gets the benefit? I don't even know if RAW would indicate there's only a benefit for one of the guns, or two ...
Help would be appreciated Just stop it already, GW rules just don't stand up to this level of scrutiny. In every other case, the grots on the vehicle add +1 to hit rolls on a weapon. It reads: "add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made with this model's '_____'."This follows the same template and seems to have been left off the datasheet by mistake. The only difference is that this model has 2 of the weapons it mentions. If you actually shoot according to the way it is layed out in the big rule book, you would shoot each weapon separately. Am I shooting this model's big shoota? If yes, then add 1 to hit rolls.When you fast roll dice you simply roll the dice together to expedite the game. You really want to deny the bonus based on grammar? Come on guys. Straight RAW, I'd go benefit for 1: it's single shoota, only one benefits. Now, based on the rest of the text and the fact that 'shoota' vs 'shootas' is a really small typo, RAI for the rule would be that it adds 1 to both. But yeah, guessing what GW wanted based on the model it's still only 1 big shoota. BOOOOO. For the reason written above. By your reasoning you shouldn't get to do it all all because they left off the s and when you split fire there is no way to determine which shoota is which and which one gets the bonus. It's now a philosophical existential debate, I just want to roll dice and play the game.
Err thanks for the snarky comment which didn't specifically answer the question!
Is your opinion that one twin big shoota gets +1 to hit, or that they both do?
Also, the doomdakka grot bonus grants the bonus on two weapons.
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Post by mattblowers on Nov 21, 2018 18:05:41 GMT
Err thanks for the snarky comment which didn't specifically answer the question!
Is your opinion that one twin big shoota gets +1 to hit, or that they both do?
Also, the doomdakka grot bonus grants the bonus on two weapons.
Sorry if you thought I was being snarky. To be clear, YES, I think you get to shoot both big shootas with a +1 because it says big shoota and you have a big shoota (x2). |
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Post by russellr on Nov 21, 2018 18:20:39 GMT
Err thanks for the snarky comment which didn't specifically answer the question!
Is your opinion that one twin big shoota gets +1 to hit, or that they both do?
Also, the doomdakka grot bonus grants the bonus on two weapons.
Sorry if you thought I was being snarky. To be clear, YES, I think you get to shoot both big shootas with a +1 because it says big shoot and you have a big shoota (x2). Thanks for the reply, sorry if I was reading things the wrong way It'll be interesting to see how they clarify that FAQ, even at tourney level before they clarify it. As an occasional Ork player, I believe RAI is that it only works for one of the twin bug shootas. |
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Post by mattblowers on Nov 21, 2018 19:22:08 GMT
As an occasional Ork player, I believe RAI is that it only works for one of the twin bug shootas. My son is a big ork player. The online forums he is a part of was wondering why it had a grot on it without the grot gunner rule. For me, it's simple: in every case that I can think of bonuses to hit go by the weapon name. Every case without exception. The precedent seems clear without further clarification from GW. They simply did not put an "s" on big shoota. If they had said "one big shoota" it would make sense. Bit it says "with this model's big shoota". To me it's like saying a model with 2 sets of scytals don't get to reroll 1s from the additional attack from 2 or more scytals because the rule states you get to " reroll to hit rolls of 1 for attacks made from this weapon [not weapons]" If you can find examples of a buff only working on 1 weapon when you have more than one with the same name, I'll be more inclined to agree. |
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Post by bigpig on Nov 22, 2018 2:39:07 GMT
As an occasional Ork player, I believe RAI is that it only works for one of the twin bug shootas. My son is a big ork player. The online forums he is a part of was wondering why it had a grot on it without the grot gunner rule. For me, it's simple: in every case that I can think of bonuses to hit go by the weapon name. Every case without exception. The precedent seems clear without further clarification from GW. They simply did not put an "s" on big shoota. If they had said "one big shoota" it would make sense. Bit it says "with this model's big shoota". To me it's like saying a model with 2 sets of scytals don't get to reroll 1s from the additional attack from 2 or more scytals because the rule states you get to " reroll to hit rolls of 1 for attacks made from this weapon [not weapons]" If you can find examples of a buff only working on 1 weapon when you have more than one with the same name, I'll be more inclined to agree. Matt, are you still in Central California or am I confusing you with someone else on the boards. Gratz on your son's win at an RTT, was wondering which one it was if your local. |
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Post by mattblowers on Nov 22, 2018 2:56:53 GMT
Matt, are you still in Central California or am I confusing you with someone else on the boards. Gratz on your son's win at an RTT, was wondering which one it was if your local. I'm in central Florida, not central California. Still a pretty strong meta, but different from central Cal. |
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Post by russellr on Nov 22, 2018 4:05:40 GMT
As an occasional Ork player, I believe RAI is that it only works for one of the twin bug shootas. My son is a big ork player. The online forums he is a part of was wondering why it had a grot on it without the grot gunner rule. For me, it's simple: in every case that I can think of bonuses to hit go by the weapon name. Every case without exception. The precedent seems clear without further clarification from GW. They simply did not put an "s" on big shoota. If they had said "one big shoota" it would make sense. Bit it says "with this model's big shoota". To me it's like saying a model with 2 sets of scytals don't get to reroll 1s from the additional attack from 2 or more scytals because the rule states you get to " reroll to hit rolls of 1 for attacks made from this weapon [not weapons]" If you can find examples of a buff only working on 1 weapon when you have more than one with the same name, I'll be more inclined to agree.
I believe the RAW is up for debate and I understand your point of view on it.
I'm more thinking that RAI is that the bonus only applies to one of the weapons, because one twin big shoota faces forward, where the ork is looking ... and the other twin big shoota is facing rearward, and there's a grot inside it, aiming down the sights by that weapon. It makes sense to me that the +1 bonus is for the weapon the grot's physically behind, while the weapons facing the front don't get the bonus.
That's using common sense based on what the model looks like, and I fully understand that's not a good way to read rules! But I do believe it's what the writers meant to say
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Post by cypheon on Nov 22, 2018 6:09:05 GMT
Boneswords.
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Post by mattblowers on Nov 22, 2018 12:25:16 GMT
Sorry, no. That's not a buff, it's a weapon ability that adds an extra attack. You only get one extra attack no matter how many you hold, but that's not the same thing as a buff to a weapon. |
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