Astra militarum + 2x arco flagellants competitive ?

[alx51]

I converted 6 arco flagellants and had excellent results with them in a 2k army of imperial guard, mostly vs blood angels / knights, tau and tyranids.

I wonder if it can be viable to build 12 more, to get 2 max size units of 9, each with a priest in a rhino, to pack a massive counter punch that may be surprising, because it seems to me that arco flagellants are quite underrated, and not well known by a lot of opponents. 2 units with rhino would be 500ish points, leaving 1500pts for the guard usual gunline.

The sheer volume of S5 reroll to hit can overload a lot of things in CC, hords or elite with ++.

Should I keep building them, or are they too weak in your experience ?

Thanks for the feedback !

[killercroc]

I say they're pretty good and 2 squads isn't a bad idea with Rhino delivery. They're good against light and heavy infantry and can even baff a tank to death if you're lucky and have enough attacks, given you get 30D3 attacks I think that's enough. I guess really their main downside is T3 and the 5++ making them pretty easy to kill and they're (idk 16-ish points?) so if they get caught out then they'll die fairly easily. Also with Guard you don't get a lot of options for CC units, Ogryns, Arcos and rough riders and that's about it so if you need CC support they're probably your best bet. Just the number of attacks they get with S5 and re-rolls makes them better than even a lot of shooting units, the only thing I can think of that will come close is special weapon teams with plasma but that's only if they get to fire every round and don't get killed.

[alx51]

yes with +1a from the priest we get on average 72A, meaning 64 S5 hits with the reroll. You can force a lot of saves on custodes, T6+ is the problem. basically they are quite similar to stealers for damage output, you trade the AP for S5 basically.

like you said they are a glass canon and will die in no time if left in the open,but they pack quite a punch, so i wonder why we never see them played?

[killercroc]

Sept 25, 2018 21:02:17 GMT alx51 said:

yes with +1a from the priest we get on average 72A, meaning 64 S5 hits with the reroll. You can force a lot of saves on custodes, T6+ is the problem. basically they are quite similar to stealers for damage output, you trade the AP for S5 basically.

like you said they are a glass canon and will die in no time if left in the open,but they pack quite a punch, so i wonder why we never see them played?

I like the priest, kind of a hidden gem and plan on putting one by line infantry just to get the cheap +1 A on them because faith in the Emperor! (Also imagine Catachan with stracken and a priest, more fighty than Orks!). I'd try and make them fight things other than Custodes but if that's your main opponent it's an option. Mostly because you're looking at 64 hits, 32 wounds and 5 failed saves which isn't even 2 Custodes. granted your opponent can roll poorly and get a lot of 1's but that's never been my experience with them. Imperial Stealers, interesting concept!

Now more than ever glass cannons are so difficult to use, I always find my glass cannon-like units dying horribly and being a waste of points. Raveners are cute and all but they never do anything for my and fielding 8 just for them to die before they get into combat is a waste of 200 points and I'd be better off with another squad of stealers or another 2 fex.

Most likely it boils down to a mix of them not having cheap available models ($60 for 9 models), no codex & no traits/stratagems so what they have is all they get, and shooting being as powerful as it is dedicating some combat only units when you can just take another 2 Russ or multiple infantry squads isn't going to pay off that often. I mean for the same points you can get 12 squads of 3 heavy bolter teams that do similar damage from 36" away, hard to beat that.

[alx51]

Not my main opponent, but what i meant is they are barely worst or better than stealers against units with ++, even more on deamons where +1S makes a difference, or arlequins.

i recently had a game with 2 priests, the +1A stacks unless i missed something, so I had +2d3A per model, the opponent was not expecting that and it proved devastating, hence the idea to have 2 such units, where each priest can buff "his" unit and the other one.

[killercroc]

Sept 26, 2018 7:18:43 GMT alx51 said:

Not my main opponent, but what i meant is they are barely worst or better than stealers against units with ++, even more on deamons where +1S makes a difference, or arlequins.

i recently had a game with 2 priests, the +1A stacks unless i missed something, so I had +2d3A per model, the opponent was not expecting that and it proved devastating, hence the idea to have 2 such units, where each priest can buff "his" unit and the other one.

Ok yeah I can see that, Stealers have the speed going for them but they're hardly the most dangerous CC unit. I'd say Bloodletters are better even with less attacks the higher S and AP offsets the attacks enough that they'll end up killing more, and much cheaper too.

It's in the wording of the priests, priests don't grant +1A, any model that is within 6" of any Priest gains an attack, so you don't get multiple +1A. You'll need to mix different +1A auras.

[mattblowers]

Sept 25, 2018 21:02:17 GMT alx51 said:

like you said they are a glass canon and will die in no time if left in the open,but they pack quite a punch, so i wonder why we never see them played?

My buddy kept trying to play them with his sisters army. The problem with them is that they don't do enough damage to justify the times they simply won't get to where you want them. They are really good against an unsuspecting opponent. A good opponent will screen them out or simply run away. They are too fragile and too slow so you often don't get them where you need them. Once the codex comes out they might have some play. Then at least you charge and kill a bunch and then spend 3 CP to fight again. Because of the cost of rhinos they get real expensive real quick and foot slooging them is too fragile.

[alx51]

Sept 26, 2018 14:27:13 GMT killercroc said:

Sept 26, 2018 7:18:43 GMT alx51 said:

Not my main opponent, but what i meant is they are barely worst or better than stealers against units with ++, even more on deamons where +1S makes a difference, or arlequins.

i recently had a game with 2 priests, the +1A stacks unless i missed something, so I had +2d3A per model, the opponent was not expecting that and it proved devastating, hence the idea to have 2 such units, where each priest can buff "his" unit and the other one.

Ok yeah I can see that, Stealers have the speed going for them but they're hardly the most dangerous CC unit. I'd say Bloodletters are better even with less attacks the higher S and AP offsets the attacks enough that they'll end up killing more, and much cheaper too.

It's in the wording of the priests, priests don't grant +1A, any model that is within 6" of any Priest gains an attack, so you don't get multiple +1A. You'll need to mix different +1A auras.

mmh i don't understand why 2 priests don't give +2A in a 6" bubble could you explain again please?

[killercroc]

"You add 1 to the attack characteristic of all models in adeptus ministorum infantry and astra militarum infantry units that are within 6" of any friendly ministorum priest"

As it's worded you get +1A if you're within 6" of any priest, not +1A within 6" of every priest, which is why they used 'any'. Doesn't matter if there is 1, 2 or 100. Basically no matter how many priests you have it's only ever +1A. GW has made it so almost no ability stacks multiple times from the same source by wording it this way.

[alx51]

oh I see.. thanks for the explanation !

[kazetanade]

Abilities with the same name don't stack either, so there's that.

[mattblowers]

Oct 16, 2018 16:43:31 GMT kazetanade said:

Abilities with the same name don't stack either, so there's that.

And feel no pain type mechanics no matter the name or source, you only get to use one.