Harpy and hive crone

[kittbash]

Do you guys think Harpies and hive crones has any place in competitive tournament lists?

[Hive Bahamut]

There was a thread recently on these two:http: //thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/54484/hive-crone-harpy

My Crone is the only model I haven't touched since our codex. IMO our Flyers are garbage and here's why:

1. No Airborne, no -1 to hit, no legs to land makes no sense.
2. 4+ is bad, when almost everything shooting at it is -3AP for a 7+, and it is NEVER getting cover.
3. Melee capabilities are meh at best (other Flyers have just as many A and =/+ Strength, and the exposure to ground forces is NOT worth the tradeoff for a -2AP Talon.
4. 4+ to hit is NOT a good start for something that's degrading after the first D6 weapon takes a chunk out.
5. Flyer slot means no Boots on the Ground, so its speed means it will NEVER score.
6. Flyer slot means less CP to play with because it is a silly slot.
7. Neither one knows what it wants to be. The Crone has long range (for us) anti-AV missiles, the close range flamer is troops, and the Single tail Attack misses every phase, so is negligible in combat. The Harpy has more versatile guns, (4+ remember..) makes Mortal Wounds in Movement, and screams at something before it dies in assault.

Competetive scenes use units that can carry themselves. I have literally no idea how these models fly, let alone carry their own weight on the table. If anyone knows, please speak up!

IMO the move to Flyer killed these units off. Fast attack with half-assed Flyer rules is better than Flyer with half-assed Flyer rules.

[cypheon]

Knee jerk response is:

No, since the codex changed their role from fast attack to flier they no longer count as "boots on the ground" for tabling purposes, and lack the basic defenses provided to other fliers throughout the game.

More thought out response is:

They can pair up nicely with a unit of genestealers on a hydra t1 charge. first dropping mines on the target unit for free wounds, then charging in to soak overwatch and hit the unit with "strikes last" without need of a psyker, and they can do all of that while still shooting something else.

However, they still lack hard to hit, are only t6, 12w, and with itc scoring the way it is, could be little more than easy points for your opponents heavy weapons if HW-spam is prevalent in your area.

So... it all depends on how you plan to use them. I personally have not ran them much, because i only bought 1 before gw jacked the price up enough to be permanently out of my hobby budget.

[kazetanade]

Yes, in certain cheesy smite spam lists using a tonne of characters which is extremely hard to play well.

Both units aren't good plug and play sadly. The harpy is really close to being good though - give it BS3+ and Fast Attack and we have something workable here. The Crone on the other hand... has things to cry about.

[nidzy]

I am going to play 2 crones in a GT this weekend mostly because I love the model and it is a sportsmanship/painting themed event. I only have one game with crones in 8th. I think they are fine if you go first and likely dead if you don’t.

[niiai]

Have a lot of deployments. Deploy them out of range.

First turn charge with swramlord and GS. GS and said flyer charges the same target. Activate war on all fronts from leviathan to kill even more.

[infornography]

My lists are too tightly constructed to afford to bring anything in the useless Flyer slot unless they are exceptional, and neither one is exceptional.

The Crone is just bad and the Harpy might have found a place in my lists if it was fast attack, but it isn't so it doesn't.

[purpleshaza]

In my last game the crones anti tank abilities shone popping at least 1 Leman Russ per turn the massive movement worked for me too charging him to minimise his shooting potential.
but I have to say that it was the flyrants that were left on the table at the end of the game not the crones or the harpies.

[riotearp]

This. The crone ia good for dishing out mortal wounds and auto hit hard to hit units like culexus with their flamer. I like also their ability to bind tanks fast or to move up to characters to unload havoc into their face.
Surw they die fast but they put some kind of preshure in your list that may help out sometimes.

[Hive Bahamut]

Took a Crone today. Killed 2 Bloodletters and 2 Mortal Wounds on A Soul Grinder over 2 turns before it exploded in a hail of Chitin. All the negs of Flyer slot and none of the perks except no min move.

I'll try it periodically again but my initial assessment stands. Our flyers are poop. No damage output (at least Crone,) mixed role, and 4+ to hit/save seal the deal. I like to imagine it hovering at sword level when using the Wicked Spur in Combat too. It at least makes me feel better about trading hard to hit and Airborne for -2 AP on 3A.

One of my opponents even commented on seeing it for the first time since Codex. He then quickly understood why.

[purpleshaza]

my Harridan died in the first turn of shooting so i think flyers in general are a bit poo in this edition but bad dice are just bad dice i suppose.

[nidzy]

I ran 2 crones with 5 flyrants at a GT awhile back and have played with them a few times since. They don't have a dedicated role and they die fast. I killed a razorwing jetfighter with one in a lucky shooting phase, doing 6 mortal wounds with tentaclids and killing it with the flamer/salvo. Otherwise they have mostly died without being tough enough to be a good speedbump.

[NidNoms]

if one is to run Crones or harpies, which Hive Fleet can be good for them?

[FTGTEvan]

May 21, 2019 23:47:03 GMT NidNoms said:

if one is to run Crones or harpies, which Hive Fleet can be good for them?

Harpies in Kraken is half decent; fall back and drop spore mines, charge back in and stun, repeat for as long as it lives (which is rarely long)

[arsonfire]

The reasons I occasionally take a harpy in a kraken list are both the run away, shoot, and charge combo, and also because they're just quite handy at preventing enemies from interrupting combat.
If I've got two big units of genestealers charging in a turn, then I can depend on the enemy to interrupt before the second unit can swing. Genestealers really don't like that.

Paroxysm mostly does the same thing, and is a pretty useful power. However it can be denied.
Also Paroxysm has the wording common to most similar abilities, where if the enemy has the ability to fight first, then paroxysm and that ability cancel each other out.
The harpy however just makes the enemy fight last. No ifs, no buts. It overrides pretty much every means of fighting before a charging unit in the game. Which is kinda neat on the odd occasion that it becomes relevant. Not much else can do that.