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Post by kazetanade on Sept 12, 2021 8:49:25 GMT
zimko wheres the mortals coming out from? They don't have spammables like before and they don't have that many bonuses to cast - averaging 22MW seems excessively high from what I saw. Ob sec of 1 or 10 won't beat obsec of 9 or 30 - its an objective game, so we would still have to focus on that. Warriors do that just fine vs DG PMs and Blightlords, and may struggle vs GK a bit but should still last a good 2 turns. Honestly GK is basically going to live or die by their NDKs - which do a lot of work granted, but coders relying on single gimmicks tend to be counterable. I don't like the potential impact on these poor bullgryns though. It'd be sad if thru became unworkable. NDK are good, but the value of an interceptor is nuts. They have 3 attacks each at strength 5, ap 3 and damage 2 for 23 points and with a 12" movement. Oh and of course they still have stormbolters. Each unit can smite and they have the option to deep strike. Typically I see lists containing 30 of these which split into 6 units of 5. They're actually very comparable to Incubi, but with 2 wounds instead of 1 and a ranged weapon, and we all know how good Incubi are. I'm not sure how they did 22 MWs in that game, I only heard about the game second hand. I'm guessing it's a mix of Librarian with MW powers, purifiers (or just Crow) and normal smites. Plus they have something that makes them deal mortal wounds on 6s to wound in melee. I think that's what did a lot of the wounds. EDIT: It's called 'Tide of Convergance'. They can choose a new tide each turn, but they will almost always stay on this tide. It adds 6" to psi weapon range, and unmodified wound rolls of 6 in melee generate a mortal wound. So on average, each 5 man unit will deal 1 to 2 mortal wounds in melee, plus their normal damage. 12" movers are good but surprisingly that wasnt what really caught my attention in their codex - granted, with that kind of combat profile, GK are the premier brawler army in Astartes land - it's even more dangerous to brawl them than to brawl BA. For my meta though if someone tried to run that, they would be summarily executed through weight of fire and 2D weaponry - interceptors are not tanky enough to survive the trip across no man's land unless they shunt (and cant charge I think thereby), and with objectives always or almost always being out in the open, they make extremely poor objective holders. With smite going back to +1 casting for GK and the lack of cast boosters, they'll cap out on smite damage soon enough. Did they have a reroll to wound somewhere? I dont remember one in there at all.. or maybe it's just the impression of high MW. I remember rolling 30 dice for that 6s MW with gaunts, and got like. 2? when the average should be 5 at least. I like how Bullgryns would legitimately smash their heads in thereafter, though.
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Post by zimko on Sept 12, 2021 16:36:02 GMT
NDK are good, but the value of an interceptor is nuts. They have 3 attacks each at strength 5, ap 3 and damage 2 for 23 points and with a 12" movement. Oh and of course they still have stormbolters. Each unit can smite and they have the option to deep strike. Typically I see lists containing 30 of these which split into 6 units of 5. They're actually very comparable to Incubi, but with 2 wounds instead of 1 and a ranged weapon, and we all know how good Incubi are. I'm not sure how they did 22 MWs in that game, I only heard about the game second hand. I'm guessing it's a mix of Librarian with MW powers, purifiers (or just Crow) and normal smites. Plus they have something that makes them deal mortal wounds on 6s to wound in melee. I think that's what did a lot of the wounds. EDIT: It's called 'Tide of Convergance'. They can choose a new tide each turn, but they will almost always stay on this tide. It adds 6" to psi weapon range, and unmodified wound rolls of 6 in melee generate a mortal wound. So on average, each 5 man unit will deal 1 to 2 mortal wounds in melee, plus their normal damage. 12" movers are good but surprisingly that wasnt what really caught my attention in their codex - granted, with that kind of combat profile, GK are the premier brawler army in Astartes land - it's even more dangerous to brawl them than to brawl BA. For my meta though if someone tried to run that, they would be summarily executed through weight of fire and 2D weaponry - interceptors are not tanky enough to survive the trip across no man's land unless they shunt (and cant charge I think thereby), and with objectives always or almost always being out in the open, they make extremely poor objective holders. With smite going back to +1 casting for GK and the lack of cast boosters, they'll cap out on smite damage soon enough. Did they have a reroll to wound somewhere? I dont remember one in there at all.. or maybe it's just the impression of high MW. I remember rolling 30 dice for that 6s MW with gaunts, and got like. 2? when the average should be 5 at least. I like how Bullgryns would legitimately smash their heads in thereafter, though. Part of the difference is that your terrain has a No Man's Land. Most of the terrain I play with allows for fast units to hop from obscuring terrain to obscuring terrain. Rhinos stand on the objectives in the open while interceptors stay behind obscuring ready to counter charge. NDKs and Draigo go on the offensive. They can get reroll 1s to wound with a brotherhood captain (I think that's the right one).
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Post by piersonsmuppet on Sept 12, 2021 16:57:27 GMT
Sorry, I can’t hear you over my continued screams of joy that I actually saw a new Tyranid rule that was good. Broodlords for everyone! I'm just gonna wait for the rest of the rules to come out, otherwise it is literally just moving back into traditional GS Sling. With the new damage profiles in enemy weapons and Exo becoming more redundant in so many matchups, channelling points into Warriors with ER seems to be a strong call. 2x9 with a Prime might get loads done, even before the new BL buff. Real question: how much -3 and above is appearing out there? I used to be real high on 9x Wars with ER until I actually put it on the table. AP -3 is too common in melee for my opponents, so ER’s “advantage” over DC never really existed for me. I liked DC sometimes, but if objectives aren’t near terrain it wastes the physiology. I’ve pretty much abandoned infantry AP’s in favor of Dermic or Size, since those can’t be played around or ignored. I even favor VA on a Dakkarant over anything besides Dermic/Size other than ER on HG.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on Sept 13, 2021 5:48:35 GMT
Hammerhand allows full rerolls to wound to spike more 6's in there.
Can be cast on multiple units with +1 to cast afaik.
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Post by elkon on Sept 13, 2021 7:10:46 GMT
Hammerhand allows full rerolls to wound to spike more 6's in there. Can be cast on multiple units with +1 to cast afaik. You are correct. All non unique spells (chosen by characters rather than pre-chosen) can be cast as many times as you want with a cumulative +1 to cast.
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Post by zimko on Sept 13, 2021 13:29:12 GMT
Wait what? As far as I know, there is a Tide that allows them to cast their sub-faction (Brotherhood) spell as many times as they want with a cumulative +1 to cast. There's nothing that lets them cast Hammerhand or any of the normal spells multiple times.
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Post by No One on Sept 13, 2021 13:41:05 GMT
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Post by zimko on Sept 13, 2021 15:40:12 GMT
Oh ok, so this means Interceptors can each cast their power tho realistically they'll only get 2 or 3 of them to succeed. Their power allows them to shoot in the psychic phase, and then do a full move. Which effectively gives them a 24" move. They can't charge but whatever. It's just metabolic overdrive but a psychic power and for multiple units.
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Post by windwalkerranger on Sept 14, 2021 15:54:08 GMT
I'm just gonna wait for the rest of the rules to come out, otherwise it is literally just moving back into traditional GS Sling. With the new damage profiles in enemy weapons and Exo becoming more redundant in so many matchups, channelling points into Warriors with ER seems to be a strong call. 2x9 with a Prime might get loads done, even before the new BL buff. Real question: how much -3 and above is appearing out there? I used to be real high on 9x Wars with ER until I actually put it on the table. AP -3 is too common in melee for my opponents, so ER’s “advantage” over DC never really existed for me. I liked DC sometimes, but if objectives aren’t near terrain it wastes the physiology. I’ve pretty much abandoned infantry AP’s in favor of Dermic or Size, since those can’t be played around or ignored. I even favor VA on a Dakkarant over anything besides Dermic/Size other than ER on HG. Yesterday I used 9xER jormungandr warriors against death guard. their mortars are ap2, and most their terminator weapons are ap1 or 2 as well and ap improvemente are almost nonexistent. 9x warriors with er and with catalyst on them tanked 2x plaguewhatever tanks and 5x terminators in melee until mortarion showed up at the bottom of turn 3. with fnp morty killed 5 in a single round. they wete the mwp. and the broodlord was also amazing character sniper (with smite and psy scream and reso barb.) I still lost by 10 points in the end dur to losing all my to the last units but one. It was a close and fun game and jormun warriors with er were amazing. (also had malanth and maleceptor and prime support)
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Post by zimko on Sept 14, 2021 17:26:36 GMT
I don't get it. Your warriors brawled with some terminators, then got hurt badly by mortarion, and then you lost. Is this a promotion for warriors or a warning to not invest heavily in a unit that doesn't win you games?
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Post by tomb on Sept 14, 2021 18:57:40 GMT
I used to be real high on 9x Wars with ER until I actually put it on the table. AP -3 is too common in melee for my opponents, so ER’s “advantage” over DC never really existed for me. I liked DC sometimes, but if objectives aren’t near terrain it wastes the physiology. I’ve pretty much abandoned infantry AP’s in favor of Dermic or Size, since those can’t be played around or ignored. I even favor VA on a Dakkarant over anything besides Dermic/Size other than ER on HG. Yesterday I used 9xER jormungandr warriors against death guard. their mortars are ap2, and most their terminator weapons are ap1 or 2 as well and ap improvemente are almost nonexistent. 9x warriors with er and with catalyst on them tanked 2x plaguewhatever tanks and 5x terminators in melee until mortarion showed up at the bottom of turn 3. with fnp morty killed 5 in a single round. they wete the mwp. and the broodlord was also amazing character sniper (with smite and psy scream and reso barb.) I still lost by 10 points in the end dur to losing all my to the last units but one. It was a close and fun game and jormun warriors with er were amazing. (also had malanth and maleceptor and prime support) Hmm DG terminators are a little tastier than those you've met here. Blightlords do have ap-2 axes but also have ap -3 swords, Death shroud have a -3 ap option too. Furthermore the most common plague host is the Inexorable who have the potential to give all models in a unit with contagion (inc terminators) via a warlord trait an additional -1 ap. Inexorable Blightlords are brutal especially in 10's.. This is before gaining mortal wound shenanigans and fnp. Although rough ball park points 5 blightlords is 200 ish and 9 equipped warriors is 200ish points. So there should be a fight in it. Sounds like you had a good game though!
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Post by kazetanade on Sept 27, 2021 20:36:14 GMT
So news flash on local meta - we are seemingly moving into mass Ork Buggies and Repulsor/Gladiator spam metas. Terrain is getting moved around to support fast melee a bit more, and have a slightly smaller No Man's Land. NML still existing though.
Been looking at Orks, really like how these snakebite Squigs are looking. Goff is cray for general use but Squigs in Snakebite are so good - they got everything they want in there with durability buffs and output buffs making single models hit like a truck. With so many vehicles in play, a mass Squig army basically is 2+ 4+ ap-2 all the time, with T5/6 4+ 6++ permatrans. There's a 6+++ somewhere in there - painboss I think. Thinking of Snakebite 1 Squigosaur + 3x5 Squig Riders + 2 Squig Nobs, paired with Goff 2 z Squigosaurs, Kill Rigs, and Boyz. Maybe some Fliers as support cuz I hear one of our regulars complain about the Fliers all the time.
Back to GSC - swapping out the Jackal and Bikers just to push more Lascannons - with how little shooting was present, volume was better than a +1 to shooting. With 6 RRs, 2 Trukks, and 1 Grinder; then 1 Demo LR, we have a lot of vehicle presence that's all a little dangerous, so early objective capping should be fine. Bullgryns being slow will also be better at kicking invaders instead.
Anyone else wanna give her a try?
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Post by kazetanade on Oct 4, 2021 19:20:05 GMT
Looking at that the recent BoyzGT prep thread, I felt like throwing some Nids around. Quickly whipped this up:
Behemoth Batt: HQ -SL -Flyrant with HVC SoT and Murder Size -Flyrant with HVC MRC and Xenogenic Acid
Troops - 1 x20 GS - 1 x25 Hormagants - 1 x3 Rippers - 1 x30 Devilgants - 1 x10 Termagants
Elites - 1 x6 HG - 2 Lictors
HS - 1 Barbed Heirodule
Its got ability to score EoAF and ROD, 3rd still pending but possibly something like Stranglehold. Its got some ability to threaten all sizes due to Unstoppable Hunger on GS and Hormagants, its very good at contesting/stealing objectives, its got ranged chip damage to take the sting out of some units.
The only thing it's a bit weak at is probably super skew, and holding objectives- everything has its place and nothing is generic expendable to just put on objectives, other than the Barbed. if we opt for 2 HQs instead of 3, we could fill with another 1-2× 30 man to fill out objectives holding power, whether its 30 Termagants just praying or 30 Hormagants being a nuisance. Alternatively, swap the Barbed for an Exo or Trygon and more troops also works. I'd go trygon just to use my first Nids magnetized model, if I didn't need more guns to crack transports, or unchangeable armies.
This toolbox approach is a lot lighter on cp expenditure for peripherals - exo and Maleceptor primarily, because Genestealers and melee centric play have been traditionally the biggest cp drain, and shoot twice every turn is not cheap. However, it still retains as much toolbox elements required to function and still score, hopefully. I think the Dima got a points bump - massive one seemingly, I remember points being 200 up to 230, not 255. 25% increase is way too much - if the 2nd Flyrant doesn't work out then might swap, but with the number of Fliers that do work in AdM and Orkz (and that damn random fire raptor craze that appeared in my meta), good to have more than 1 contingency on it. May swap out if going Kraken, as Dimachaerons benefit way more from Kraken than Flyrants do due to OA not working on FLY.
It also still has major difficulties vs thick invuls - the very bane of our existence since 7th Ed if not earlier, being unable to cut through tank units such as Bullgryns, Marine Van Vets/Bladeguard, Eldari Wraithblades, Harley bikes, and most anything else with 5+ models and a 4++. The MW output is extremely low compared to meta armies, although I suppose we have some tools via smite and behemoth strat and gant strat to generate MWs on tougher enemies. Hopefully xenogenic with Smite + PS shows to be a decent invul Breaker as I'm hoping it to be.
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Post by kazetanade on Oct 4, 2021 19:23:42 GMT
Yesterday I used 9xER jormungandr warriors against death guard. their mortars are ap2, and most their terminator weapons are ap1 or 2 as well and ap improvemente are almost nonexistent. 9x warriors with er and with catalyst on them tanked 2x plaguewhatever tanks and 5x terminators in melee until mortarion showed up at the bottom of turn 3. with fnp morty killed 5 in a single round. they wete the mwp. and the broodlord was also amazing character sniper (with smite and psy scream and reso barb.) I still lost by 10 points in the end dur to losing all my to the last units but one. It was a close and fun game and jormun warriors with er were amazing. (also had malanth and maleceptor and prime support) Hmm DG terminators are a little tastier than those you've met here. Blightlords do have ap-2 axes but also have ap -3 swords, Death shroud have a -3 ap option too. Furthermore the most common plague host is the Inexorable who have the potential to give all models in a unit with contagion (inc terminators) via a warlord trait an additional -1 ap. Inexorable Blightlords are brutal especially in 10's.. This is before gaining mortal wound shenanigans and fnp. Although rough ball park points 5 blightlords is 200 ish and 9 equipped warriors is 200ish points. So there should be a fight in it. Sounds like you had a good game though! Can you elaborate on the MW and FnP shenanigans? I remember trawling DG for awhile and never came across a source of FnP, nor a consistent way to generate MWs.
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Post by tomb on Oct 4, 2021 21:33:14 GMT
The FNP is from the plague Surgeon.
Tainted Narthecium (Aura): While a friendly BUBONIC ASTARTES INFANTRY unit is within 3" of this model, each time a model in that unit would lose a wound, roll one D6: on a 6, that wound is not lost. Whilst not as great as the old 5+++ and with plenty of competition for other options/ characters in the book. As another level of resilience on top of the rest it can make for frustratingly resilient. Additionaly there is access to old 5+++ as a warlord trait but we are talked no blightlords here.
Mortal wounds come from a number of sources. Obs psychers (plague caster do extra MW's to closest units) characters(Typhus etc) and a huge amount of stratagems (too many to list).
The most useful source for blightlords in my opinion is the plague skull of golitha. Available on the champion. Allows the unit to break from engagement range in the movement phase or put MW on targets like Ghaz in the movement phase.
PLAGUE SKULL OF GLOTHILA This oversized deaths head was once the skull of the Chaos Lord Glothila, whose dying wish was to become a weapon of purest evil. Once per battle, at the end of your Movement phase, the bearer can use this Relic. If it does, select one enemy unit within 6" of the bearer and roll seven D6s: for each 4-5, that unit suffers 1 mortal wound; for each 6, that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds.
Additionally the Biologus Putrifier can once per turn use: "Foul Infusion, which allows him to super-charge a CORE unit within 6″ in the Charge or Fight phase, giving that unit the ability to do extra mortal wounds for each unmodified wound roll of 6 made with a plague weapon in the following phase".
Personally I used to run two units of 10 blight lords, so good.
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