Astra Militia OP?

[N.I.B.]

What ya'll think about the new and improved AM?

www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/09/30/codex-review-astra-militarum/

www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/10/02/codex-review-astra-militarum-part-2/

Looks like its going to be a grueling uphill battle especially with the new edition fall back rules now that orders had already been overriding the penalty. In the MiniWargaming video codex review their IG player basically said, “Guard was already the strongest army of 8th and I am 28-1 with my list and I’ve won every tournament I’ve entered, and now this codex just buffs everything I was already taking without any real drawbacks.”

Borrowing a post from some random dude:

I think a lot of people expected some light buffs for the bad units and nerfs for a lot of other stuff, and instead it looks like pretty light nerfs to the handful of best things + bananas buffs to everything else across the board. The last time people expected a top army to get toned down and instead it got way better was with the last Eldar codex, and we all know how that turned out. I am reading some early comments online and I’m surprised to even see a lot of IG players worrying that all the buffs are too much and that they’ll become the “everyone rolls their eyes when they see the army on the table” army of this edition.

All the 8th codexes so far seemed fluffy and generally balanced, with both strengths and weaknesses, even if Gulliman/UM is pretty hefty. The new IG codex doesn’t sound like that. I’m surprised conscripts stayed at 3 ppm and guardsmen at 4 ppm, that Russes not only got cheaper but also got possible obsec and also got double shot and also got very powerful stratagems/regimental bonuses, that basilisks got even better with -3 AP, that orders got even more powerful, and that the army with the easiest availability of CPs can now ALSO get them refunded on 5+ AND get bonuses ones from the enemy on a 5+ (DG players with the ~15% chance Tallyman CP refund are weeping).

[vejby]

I don't necessarily think this is so bad, depending on GW's ability to stay on course with the remaining codexes still to be released.

There is now a precedent for stratagems allowing damages or wiped infantry units to be brought back. Welcome back to Without Number, but now without the point cost and unit restriction. 20 fully upgraded genestealers returned to the table for a CP cost? Yes, please. Termagants and spore mines should be able to fill up those brigades quickly enough to make it a viable Tool in the box.

We can also be fairly certain the hive fleets will get their own traits and while chapter tacticts were a bit hit or miss for Space Marines, all the regimental doctrines seem to be worthwhile as support mechanism of just about whichever way one wants to play the army. That is good for the game and the gamer.

GW have demonstrated that they can drop the ball in spite of making a good show for a period of time previsously, but at least in principle, the current trend bodes well for the coming tyranid codex, although I will agree that the AM codex does enlarge the divide that already exists between index and codex armies. And even so, the codex has most likely been ready for some time, meaning that 'fixing' it before release was not an option, although it remains to be seen what the Chapter Approved updates will do to AM.

For once, I am rather optimistic.

[mattblowers]

Oct 4, 2017 8:30:00 GMT vejby said:

I don't necessarily think this is so bad, depending on GW's ability to stay on course with the remaining codexes still to be released.

"Other than THAT Mrs. Lincoln, how did you find the play?"

[vejby]

Sorry, non-native speaker here and I am not familiar with that specific expression, so I am not sure what you're saying.

The point of the post is just, that if GW are able to continue to put out codexes with similar power levels then the game will all be in a good place. The new AM, while on the strong side, is a sign that, for once, they have Applied the same design philosophy over several books.

Its like playing 20th level characters in DnD. A lot of stuff will kill you outright, even if you got the best defences your class can buy, but it will be fun and you will have about a 50/50 chance of coming out Victorius, although bad matchups will occur. At least that is where I hope GW leads the game.

Its better than last edition, where nids might get to be level 8-10 and every one else could put together epic level characters.

[mattblowers]

Oct 4, 2017 11:50:05 GMT vejby said:

Sorry, non-native speaker here and I am not familiar with that specific expression, so I am not sure what you're saying.

Sorry, It's an American colloquialism. It's a reference to Abraham Lincoln and his assassination during a theatrical play. It's a humorous way to say someone is ignoring a big issue to focus on something else.

AM from the Index was already on par with all the codexes that have been released. Now they are even better. It doesn't appear to have any semblence of balance. This could go one of 3 ways:

1. AM is an anomaly and will be the new Eldar of 8th edition.

2. All future codexes could be on par with AM which will leave the first few codexes in the dust (a repeat from 6th edition where CSM and Dark Angels struggled for years).

3. GW reigns it in a bit and we get releases that are substandard: think Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Orks, Grey Knights and AM from last edition. None of them were any good other than a few specific builds and you almost never saw any in the top half of major events. My last GT of 7th had 1 ork player that predictably finished in bottom half.

GW has a really poor track record and I am really skeptical until they prove me wrong. I went to make a large order from my FLGS last weekend and then decided against it at the last minute. My reason: I'm waiting until that army's codex releases because I'm afraid to trust them.

[vejby]

Right then. I think I more or less agree with you, though, I just choose to see it through rose-tinted glasses until GW prove me wrong.

AM may be the Eldar-anomaly of eighth, but GW have already proven willing and able to correct Things quickly. Until that trend Wears off, which we will know when Chapter Approved actually comes out, I will try to keep the rose-tints on.

Of course, if the nid codex is obviously sub-par from day one, I will be a proven fool

[vejby]

Oct 4, 2017 12:13:58 GMT mattblowers said:

Oct 4, 2017 11:50:05 GMT vejby said:

GW has a really poor track record and I am really skeptical until they prove me wrong. I went to make a large order from my FLGS last weekend and then decided against it at the last minute. My reason: I'm waiting until that army's codex releases because I'm afraid to trust them.

When the last codex came out, I had half a mind to go to the only official GW store in the country, bulk up on everything from warriors to pyrovores and put them down on the counter, only to quickly glance through the codex with the staff before paying and returning everything to the shelf as the glaring idiocies of that book became apparent. I never got the chance to do it, unfortunately...

[mattblowers]

Oct 4, 2017 12:23:34 GMT vejby said:

Oct 4, 2017 12:13:58 GMT mattblowers said:

When the last codex came out, I had half a mind to go to the only official GW store in the country, bulk up on everything from warriors to pyrovores and put them down on the counter, only to quickly glance through the codex with the staff before paying and returning everything to the shelf as the glaring idiocies of that book became apparent. I never got the chance to do it, unfortunately...

Brilliant! If I lived near Warhammer world I would do this. I'd get together a couple thousand $$$ order and then start taking things out that stunk. I'd only buy one pot of wash in the end because Agrax Earthshade is magical.

[acehilator]

Yeah, AM codex is pretty much broken. Super fluffy, and I don't begrudge AM players their place in the spotlight one bit, but it is still broken. What's really amazing is that it is not only one problem, but like half or dozen or more, with half of the codex at the treshold of being OP. Seems like not a single game designer involved in the creation of the monster that is the AM codex is even capable of calculating percentages and averages. Geez, and here we were, thinking SM with Gully or Azrael were bad enough. How naive, rofl

[Hive Bahamut]

Reboot isn't nearly as bad as this mess will be. Why use a 300+ character to regen when you can do it for 30, but on yours and your opponents as well. Our resident AM already benched them before the codex dropped because of how silly efficient it is.

Cheap effective Scripts
Leman Russ that Fire 2x at 2+
Arty that is cheap AND devastating
Heck the only thing they don't do better than Nids is make mines.

I kind of expect our Haruspex to bleed Genestealers and our Tyrants to be 50 at this rate. Fleshborer Hives for everyone!

[25below]

Call me a pessimist but I’ve been so disappointed before with a subpar codex that my gut is telling me that GW is going to reign it all in starting with the nid codex. I pray I’m wrong. I have been holding off on several nid projects just because I truly feel a huge disappointment coming. Like I said, I pray I’m wrong.

[dangsc]

I'm pissed off that AM have all these awesome regiment rules, but they're not allowed to use them if they're baddies (Brood Brothers). The codex/index power disparity seems too much and I can't see chapter approved fixing it. I feel sorry for the last army to get a codex (and it might be mine).

We'll see I guess. My cult tabled Eldar this week so I'm in a good mood.

[Jabberwocky]

There's not currently anything in the brood brother rule saying you won't be able to use the AM detachment to it's fullest, with regimental rules etc. The only restriction is the number of detachments which is easily circumvented by spamming magus supreme commands.

Players are expecting it to be FAQed but there's nothing against it for now.

[N.I.B.]

Oct 6, 2017 5:13:45 GMT 25below said:

Call me a pessimist but I’ve been so disappointed before with a subpar codex that my gut is telling me that GW is going to reign it all in starting with the nid codex.

Yup. Someone at GW just needs to think "oh dear, I thought we did a good job at making a fun and strong IG codex this time, but look at all the outrage and complaints we are getting because of how good it is. Oh well, it's too late to do anything about it now. Eldar and Tyranids are next, lets make *DOUBLE* sure that we don't make this mistake again. Drop a bunch of those special rules we planned for them. Oh and add 1 point to every model. We don't want any more bad publicity!"

I have a horrible feeling that this is far too likely.

[mattblowers]

Oct 6, 2017 5:49:58 GMT dangsc said:

I'm pissed off that AM have all these awesome regiment rules, but they're not allowed to use them if they're baddies (Brood Brothers). The codex/index power disparity seems too much and I can't see chapter approved fixing it. I feel sorry for the last army to get a codex (and it might be mine).

We'll see I guess. My cult tabled Eldar this week so I'm in a good mood.

Is there something in the codex that says that? Nothing in the index rules indicate it.

As for Eldar, they are the new Tyranids. I keep trying to play Eldar/Dark Eldar and get tabled at least 50% of the time. They are my fluff armies now. They need a ton of love to be viable. Oh well, I guess that means I'll be able to finish my collections on the cheap.