Vs. Chaos 8.0

[25below]

Well, I faced the chaos army last night with the list I posted above. It was another victory for the hive mind. His army consisted of a demon prince, a couple of other characters, deep striking termies, talons, obliberaters, a helldrake, and a ton of noise marines. The game included tactical objectives. I castled up in a corner and bubble wrapped everything.

First turn he deep struck his termies and a character but failed his charge. He did charge my bubble wrap with the helldrake. Managed to kill one gant. His noise marines managed to kill about 20 gants to shooting, but was on the other side of the bubble away from where he assaulted. In my turn one I moved the gants out of melee and shot the helldrake in the face with my exocrine. One helldrake down. I then charged the termies with a brood of genestealers and took them down to two. All of my tactical objectives were junk while his were great. After turn one I was already down 4 points to none.

Turn two the talons arrived and joined the termies in melee with my stealers. His noise marines continued to pound me. This turn they killed my second brood of stealers. At this point I was ready to call it a day. My dice had gone stone cold. Most of my stealers were gone and I was way behind in points. But, in melee my stealers took the talons down to one and the termies down to one as well. In my turn I move the two remaining gant broods up and started shooting. I managed to kill about a third of the noise marines. In melee I finished off the talons and termies. My broodlord managed to kill the termie character. Objectives score was 7-1.

Turn three he managed to kill one of the exocrine. No melee. In my turn three things really started to change. My dice warmed up nicely. My remaining exocrine killed a 5man squad of noise marines that were setting on an objective. My shooting was very effective. By the end of my turn all he had left was a demon prince, another character and two 2-man squads of noise marines. The only problem was that one of the squads was in the opposite corner of the table from my biovores and the other one was about three and a half feet away in the same direction.

Turn four he moved his DP and other character up to try and assault but failed the DP. The character assaulted some gants. My turn I moved everything up including the biovores. Shooting killed the DP and character. My biovores moved and still managed to kill one noise marine in one of the 2-man squads. He rolls a 4 to continue the game.

Turn five, he moves as far away as he can. One of his squads can’t move because it is in the corner of the table. I moved my biovores as far as I could and managed to kill the lone noise marine. I roll a 5 to continue the game.

Turn six I moved the biovores and managed to get three hits and killed his last two marines.

If I learned anything from this game it was keep your eye on the objective and never give up. Stars of the game obviously were the biovores. But, those devilgants are amazing when shooting.

[Kitane]

Here's a warning to watch out for a rather nasty Death Guard stratagem, "Dead walk again." They can use it on a Poxwalker unit at the beginning of the movement phase and until the beginning of their next movement phase, ANY killed infantry model within 7" of the unit, friendly or enemy, is added as a Poxwalker to the unit. Not only this can add a large number of models to the unit in a single turn, the new models can be placed in unit coherency and conga-lined away from the original unit, creating blocking lines and bubble wraps on demand.

I had to delay the advancing Death Guard line with a large brood of gaunts in a funny three-way casual game, and since they had some poxwalkers mixed in, I let my gaunts nearly wipe out the zombies before charging in, hoping to keep their kill-replenish rate to a minimum (they had 2 models left). The charge brought the entire brood within the 7" range. The OOE and my Broodlord were about 8" away behind the gaunts and aiming to hit the enemy on my next turn, while his gunline was in combat.

After he used that stratagem, he wiped out the gaunts, raised 26 new zombies(!) and as the new models were added to the unit, he conga-lined them from the original 2 Poxwalkers towards the rest of my army, cutting off my force and leaving no way out for both Broodlord and OOE.

[No One]

Kitane said:

Not only this can add a large number of models to the unit in a single turn, the new models can be placed in unit coherency and conga-lined away from the original unit, creating blocking lines and bubble wraps on demand.

They FAQed that out:

Q: Some rules allow me to add models to a unit during the battle (e.g. the Poxwalker’s Curse of the Walking Pox ability). Where are those models set up?
A: Unless otherwise stated, these new models are placed anywhere that is more than 1" from any enemy model and still within unit coherency of a model in its own unit
that was itself on the battlefield at the start of the phase in which the new model was created. Note that if you cannot set up a new model on the battlefield because
there is no room, it is simply not set up.

[Kitane]

Oh ffs /facepalm. Thanks.

[lordsia]

Huh, that complicates my Tervigon's spawning of Termagants a bit... But eh, it's a fair cop.

[Kitane]

Oct 22, 2017 23:14:15 GMT lordsia said:

Huh, that complicates my Tervigon's spawning of Termagants a bit... But eh, it's a fair cop.

I'd say that Tervigon's rule falls under "unless otherwise stated", as the rule is pretty explicit where and how the models are placed.

[malkyn76]

I've played Death Guard twice now since the new codex dropped, and have come to the same conclusion both times. They're just so slow. I won both games, though the second one started off much more sluggishly than the first. There is little to say about the first game as it only went until the 2nd turn in which my opponent conceded. I was able to take out all of his characters with some well-positioned psykers and prolific use of smite. He was left with an Chaos Knight and a unit of plague marines while I had only lost two mawlocs and had everything else just bearing down upon him.

The second game was longer and eventful. After seeing what he had placed in deepstrike, I baited him by giving him zero position to drop them in save behind me. Knowing that it was his two strongest characters and his terminators, I simply advanced rapidly toward his deployment zone and away from them. There was no way they could keep up and were left trying to cover ground and failing. Play keep away. Everything in the army is slow. Everything in the army is tough. Everything in the army is resilient. Scorch bugs from Gargoyles chew up marines in now time, big monsters thrown into poxwalkers may lock down your bigguns but prevents the unit from getting larger as they struggle to even wound you. It will be a long, drawn out battle, but numbers will eventually overcome their toughness.

[bansh]

That is some mighty fine advice

[shirriandemon]

For the longest time the only person I had to play against was a choas player running Black Legion (seven months straight of him kicking I strongly disagree) first game with the new codex and I kicked his (please do not swear.) He switched his land raider out for a full unit of cultists and my hive tyrant wiped them out in one round with his TLD. However his Demon Prince defeated my scythe of tyran wielding Flyrant by making 8 5++ saves.

[mrdodo]

I need some help guys : 2 of the players at my store play death guard. they change lists, but 1 thing is always there : 6 bloat drones and 3 crawlers...

Those things are just so good for the points. And 10 wounds, toughness 7. 3+ save 5+ demon invul and 5+ feel no pain.... 10'' move and 2d6 str 6 flamer hits, just destroys everything.

And when I finally bring one down they explode in my face dealing mortal wound to everything in 7''

That is just crazy for around 100 points...

And then I havent even started about the crawlers.

Anyway, anyway to stop them?

[bansh]

Carnifex are about 100pts each....

[malkyn76]

Nov 30, 2017 17:59:50 GMT mrdodo said:

I need some help guys : 2 of the players at my store play death guard. they change lists, but 1 thing is always there : 6 bloat drones and 3 crawlers...

Those things are just so good for the points. And 10 wounds, toughness 7. 3+ save 5+ demon invul and 5+ feel no pain.... 10'' move and 2d6 str 6 flamer hits, just destroys everything.

And when I finally bring one down they explode in my face dealing mortal wound to everything in 7''

That is just crazy for around 100 points...

And then I havent even started about the crawlers.

Anyway, anyway to stop them?

A stationary Rupturefex can take out two a turn from across the table if your rolls are decent.  Hive guard can do that as well, and heavy venom cannons can punch a nice hole too.

[mrdodo]

Nov 30, 2017 23:06:24 GMT malkyn76 said:

Nov 30, 2017 17:59:50 GMT mrdodo said:

I need some help guys : 2 of the players at my store play death guard. they change lists, but 1 thing is always there : 6 bloat drones and 3 crawlers...

Those things are just so good for the points. And 10 wounds, toughness 7. 3+ save 5+ demon invul and 5+ feel no pain.... 10'' move and 2d6 str 6 flamer hits, just destroys everything.

And when I finally bring one down they explode in my face dealing mortal wound to everything in 7''

That is just crazy for around 100 points...

And then I havent even started about the crawlers.

Anyway, anyway to stop them?

A stationary Rupturefex can take out two a turn from across the table if your rolls are decent.  Hive guard can do that as well, and heavy venom cannons can punch a nice hole too.

I wish my friend : lets take average. 6 rupture shots if fex stands still. (+4 so 3 hit) (3+to wound so 2 wounds) (+5 invulsave so 1,33 unsaved) (which give an average of 4,666 unsaved wounds so lets say 5) (then the feel no pain of 5+ for 3,1 actual wounds.   So if we round it up a rupturefex takes 3 rounds of dedicated shooting to take out almost 1 bloat drone.  Not even close to your one or two per turn.

Hive guard are more promising, especially with shock cannons : lets take a squad of 6(lets go crazy). 12 shots. 8 hits. 4 wounds and 4 mortal wounds. 2 save for 2 wound and 4 mortal wounds. 4 damage and 4 mortal wounds of which 3 will be denied by feel no pain. So again that is 5 wounds total and 2 rounds of dedicating shooting to kill 1 bloat drone.

Sadly you will only get 1 round of shooting before they have crossed the table and burn your brains out, even with wrap (they fly or with the 9 inch can just shoot over your wrap)

I guess maybe 30 devilgaunts can take 1 out?  90 shots. 45 hits.  15+10 (for reroll) wounds. of the 25 wounds, 8 will go through. so after the feel no pain the drone will lose 6 wounds. Again it will take a double tap from a full squad to take out one 100 point model. after which again you will be burned to the ground. 

I hoped someone had experience against them and had found a way to take them out instead of just relying on good rolls. (which offcourse is a bad tactic)

Thanks for the thinking though (maybe my math is really off?)

[endgame422]

Bloat drones are pretty efficient in terms of difficulty to kill for the point value.
I don't think there's really very many units we have that are going to 1 shot them with just the shooting phase so you'll have to focus them down.
The good news is they aren't really great at killing our MCs with plague spitters being a degrading S6 weapon.
My hive tyrant with wings,HVC, MRC and casting smite and getting catalyst works them over nicely and they have very little chance of killing him.
On average it would take 15 drones with spitters to shoot a catalyst hive tyrant to death in a turn.
If you can get something (ideally genestealers but hormagaunts work well too) to tie up those crawlers up, a tyrant backed up with either several neurothropes to throw MWs or devgaunts/HG shooting should handle those drones before they can cause too much damage.
The nice bit is that the neuros,HG, and tyrant are all also adept at killing those crawlers when the drones are finished.
Patience is very important VS death guard.

[mrdodo]

Dec 1, 2017 17:29:37 GMT endgame422 said:

Bloat drones are pretty efficient in terms of difficulty to kill for the point value.
I don't think there's really very many units we have that are going to 1 shot them with just the shooting phase so you'll have to focus them down.
The good news is they aren't really great at killing our MCs with plague spitters being a degrading S6 weapon.
My hive tyrant with wings,HVC, MRC and casting smite and getting catalyst works them over nicely and they have very little chance of killing him.
On average it would take 15 drones with spitters to shoot a catalyst hive tyrant to death in a turn.
If you can get something (ideally genestealers but hormagaunts work well too) to tie up those crawlers up, a tyrant backed up with either several neurothropes to throw MWs or devgaunts/HG shooting should handle those drones before they can cause too much damage.
The nice bit is that the neuros,HG, and tyrant are all also adept at killing those crawlers when the drones are finished.
Patience is very important VS death guard.

hmmz yeah maybe I am thinking wrong and should take it out in close combat.
I was hoping to find a way to take somthing out 1st turn so they explode in their own army face for some nice extra free mortal wounds

You are right about the hive tyrant and genestealers, I am gonna give that a try.

stupid death guard.. they just really dont want to be biomass.  My tourney list has both flyrant and genestealers, I guess I am gonna bring that once instead of just fun stuff