Went through the index and priced up everything

[nameless]

A first impression:

Winners:

• Hive Tyrant (even with loss of TLdev, is good in other ways, don't necessarily need wings)
• Broodlord (may be too expensive, but seems good)
• Tervigon (don't have to pay for spawned gants, help gants shoot better, boarderline expensive)
• Warriors (lots of wounds now, fairly cheap (5 with swords is 125 points) and can travel in tunnel with trygon)
• Genestealers (probably the best unit in the index, 13 points with AG and can move 8+1d6+1 and assault 2d6+1)
• Hormagaunts (cheap, fast, and the 6" pile in will cause so much mayhem in opponents setups)
• Shrikes (5 points more than a warrior but doubles movement, very good unit with boneswords)
• Harpy (lots of shots, fairly durable, borderline expensive, the sonic screech could be game changing)
• Carnifex (stupid cheap, stupid killy, 2xST/AG + maybe TS)
• Trygon Prime (Tunnel seems really good with mandatory troops anyway, T6 is unfortunate, but really good way for forward synapse if a tad expensive)
• Mawloc (stupid cheap, lots of mortal wounds)
• Exocrine (very deadly when not moving, get to board center and stop moving. Very good onslaught target)
• Sporocyst (insane number of shots, good for synapse coverage, good deployment options)

Losers:

• Tyranid Prime (probably better off with a broodlord)
• Swarmlord (super expensive, not that much more durable than a hive tyrant)
• Lictor (Doesn't seem killy enough for the cost)
• Zoanthrope (I think there are better psychic options)
• Red Terror + Ravengers (no synapse and Shrikes are just better for only 3 more points)
• Skyslahsers (I don't know what you want from these things)
• Crone (maybe good if you're expecting a lot of flyers)
• Tyrannocyte (maybe good for a haruspex, pyrovore, or maleceptor, but really really expensive)
• Trygon (I think I'd rather pay for synapse)
• Tyrannofex (stupid expensive, lame gun for AT, fleshborer hive may be okay)

Remains to be seen (if I had to make a choice, + is good, - is bad):

• + Old One Eye (seems strong and low cost, does it justify the extra 40ish points?)
• - Termagants (they are what they are)
• - Rippers (make'em burrow on to an objective?)
• + Tyrant Guard (depends on how often you're walking tyrants)
• + Hive Guard (shock canon is amazing if you know you're going against mech army, impalier is okayish)
• - Maleceptor (could be good, but you have better psychic options)
• + Venomthrope (cheap, but how important is -1 to hit? could be pretty good)
• - Pyrovores (in a pod but they are super expensive)
• - Haruspex (could be too expensive, but it finally dangerous enough)
• - Deathleaper (this could be good, but it's hard to see someone leaving that character in the open)
• + Gargoyles (fast moving gants for +2 points, models are annoying to move)
• + Biovore (mortal wound spam?)
• + Toxicrene (could be good in a pod, fairly killy)

[FPC]

May 31, 2017 23:22:50 GMT nameless said:

A first impression:

Winners:

• Hive Tyrant (even with loss of TLdev, is good in other ways, don't necessarily need wings)
• Broodlord (may be too expensive, but seems good)
• Tervigon (don't have to pay for spawned gants, help gants shoot better, boarderline expensive)
• Warriors (lots of wounds now, fairly cheap (5 with swords is 125 points) and can travel in tunnel with trygon)
• Genestealers (probably the best unit in the index, 13 points with AG and can move 8+1d6+1 and assault 2d6+1)
• Hormagaunts (cheap, fast, and the 6" pile in will cause so much mayhem in opponents setups)
• Shrikes (5 points more than a warrior but doubles movement, very good unit with boneswords)
• Harpy (lots of shots, fairly durable, borderline expensive, the sonic screech could be game changing)
• Carnifex (stupid cheap, stupid killy, 2xST/AG + maybe TS)
• Trygon Prime (Tunnel seems really good with mandatory troops anyway, T6 is unfortunate, but really good way for forward synapse if a tad expensive)
• Mawloc (stupid cheap, lots of mortal wounds)
• Exocrine (very deadly when not moving, get to board center and stop moving. Very good onslaught target)
• Sporocyst (insane number of shots, good for synapse coverage, good deployment options)

Losers:

• Tyranid Prime (probably better off with a broodlord)
• Swarmlord (super expensive, not that much more durable than a hive tyrant)
• Lictor (Doesn't seem killy enough for the cost)
• Zoanthrope (I think there are better psychic options)
• Red Terror + Ravengers (no synapse and Shrikes are just better for only 3 more points)
• Skyslahsers (I don't know what you want from these things)
• Crone (maybe good if you're expecting a lot of flyers)
• Tyrannocyte (maybe good for a haruspex, pyrovore, or maleceptor, but really really expensive)
• Trygon (I think I'd rather pay for synapse)
• Tyrannofex (stupid expensive, lame gun for AT, fleshborer hive may be okay)

Remains to be seen (if I had to make a choice, + is good, - is bad):

• + Old One Eye (seems strong and low cost, does it justify the extra 40ish points?)
• - Termagants (they are what they are)
• - Rippers (make'em burrow on to an objective?)
• + Tyrant Guard (depends on how often you're walking tyrants)
• + Hive Guard (shock canon is amazing if you know you're going against mech army, impalier is okayish)
• - Maleceptor (could be good, but you have better psychic options)
• + Venomthrope (cheap, but how important is -1 to hit? could be pretty good)
• - Pyrovores (in a pod but they are super expensive)
• - Haruspex (could be too expensive, but it finally dangerous enough)
• - Deathleaper (this could be good, but it's hard to see someone leaving that character in the open)
• + Gargoyles (fast moving gants for +2 points, models are annoying to move)
• + Biovore (mortal wound spam?)
• + Toxicrene (could be good in a pod, fairly killy)

Don't warriors have the same number of wounds as they used to?

Also Genestealers can't take AG.

[nameless]

They do but they are not getting double tapped anymore. It remains to be seen if they get hit with multi damage weapons a lot but 25 points (with swords) a pop isn't a huge price. Also, if you're putting them in a tunnel you can save points and skip the prime.

Even without AG, genestealers are still great

[almostmercury]

Are we sure Tervigons don't hold points for spawned gaunts? I'm trying to work out whether that is the case or not.

[almostmercury]

May 31, 2017 23:22:50 GMT nameless said:

Losers:

• Crone (maybe good if you're expecting a lot of flyers)

Have you read the profile? It can shoot all of it's guns, that means a salvo, a drool cannon, and a tentaclid at different targets. Tentaclids are not one use only, and Haywire is amazing.

And it actually has melee weapons for when it inevitably gets into a fight, and it costs exactly what it did before (156 points).

If the unit has the fly keyword (read: not just flyers, but Tau battle suits and old jump infantry like assault marines and gargoyles) you reroll to hit with the tentaclid.

The Hive Crone is at least twice as good as it was before.

[kazetanade]

Warriors are cheaper, hence they are better.

They still can get double tapped. Or mass gunned down. Or all sorts of rubbish that hasnt changed. But they're cheaper, in a codex of cheap threats, with certain ways of contributing without increasing their threat.

IMO Biovores and Pyrovores are the biggest winners. Pyrovore are the only drop flame unit left in the game. And they even explode the right way this time. Biovores creates a tonne of mortal wounds whether it hits or not.

HTs are one of the biggest losers - same price but none of the power or survivability. TG are necessary for survival due to W10 can't hide behind models. Guns are mediocre to (please do not swear) and weapons are not very good anymore.

The biomorph list is THE biggest loser - reduced to a measly 2 options. That's a lot of pounds shed.

[phenatix]

So I went through some common weapon loadouts to see what kind of average damage would be dishing out for the points. I didn't include any multi-wound effects, as standard guard equivalent, marine equivalent, and terminator equivalent have 1 wound a piece...

It looks to me like Genestealers are one of our best troop choices, especially when you consider the scything talons are free (they look as if they would be better against a no save enemy for instance, or maybe something with to-hit protection, I didn't look into it), they can move + advance and charge, and the Broodlord buffs them.

Raveners also interest me, although T4 5+ save (vs the 5+ save and 5+ invulnerable Genestealers have) seems rather squishy... 3 wounds seems +/- to me with so many weapons dealing multiple wounds now in addition to armor mods.

EDIT: I think the Exocrine is a terrible monster vs enemy troops, but may be one of our better options vs vehicle and other high wound count single targets of medium toughness. Lastly, what is even the point of <Hive Fleet> rule when it does literally nothing?

[El Bombastico]

Hive Tyrants are NOT the same points costs. Where the hell did you get your info?

[nameless]

Jun 1, 2017 4:08:35 GMT almostmercury said:

Have you read the profile? It can shoot all of it's guns, that means a salvo, a drool cannon, and a tentaclid at different targets. Tentaclids are not one use only, and Haywire is amazing.

And it actually has melee weapons for when it inevitably gets into a fight, and it costs exactly what it did before (156 points).

If the unit has the fly keyword (read: not just flyers, but Tau battle suits and old jump infantry like assault marines and gargoyles) you reroll to hit with the tentaclid.

The Hive Crone is at least twice as good as it was before.

I still don't like the look of it. It's going to get a ton more and it doesn't have hard to hit.

I really don't like the drool cannon. Tentiliads are good yeah, but I think that hive guard would do the job better.

Maybe it's better, but I don't see it yet. It was pretty bad last edition, so twice as good doesn't mean a whole lot.

[kazetanade]

Jun 1, 2017 4:24:49 GMT El Bombastico said:

Hive Tyrants are NOT the same points costs. Where the hell did you get your info?

First page. Basic Flyrant loudout 7th ed is 230 without haywire. Flyrant scytals is 230+. Flyrant CC/Scytals is 237. Flyrant double DSwM, 210 so that's a mere 20 points cheaper.

How am i suppose to react to this? Did you read the OP? Did you play 7th?

[loopstah]

Jun 1, 2017 3:57:39 GMT almostmercury said:

Are we sure Tervigons don't hold points for spawned gaunts? I'm trying to work out whether that is the case or not.

Tervigons do need to hold points for new units but not for healing units. It's in the matched play rules.

[Opu]

May 31, 2017 20:27:03 GMT loopstah said:

Hi,

So I had a bit of time today and worked through the Index putting points to everything to help me plan my army. I thought it might be useful to others so here's the list.
I've tended just to put Scytalons rather than specify, assume it's the correct version for that unit, I also don't list tails if they don't have alternate options for one, if they do I went for the non-forced use option.
I've also pointed out the min useable unit for each.
This is without biomorphs.

I think these are correct, if any are wrong let me know.

HQ:
Swarmlord 300
Old One Eye 140
Hive Tyrant with Wings, 2x Scytalons 233
Hive Tyrant, 2x Scytalons 206
Hive Tyrant with Wings, Boneswords, Scytalons 237
Hive Tyrant, Boneswords, Scytalons 210
Hive Tyrant with Wings, 4x Deathspitters w/Maggots 210
Hive Tyrant, 4x Deathspitters w/Maggots 184
Broodlord 162
Tyranid Prime, Boneswords, Scytalons, Flesh hooks 106
Tyranid Prime, 2x Scytalons, Flesh hooks 102
Tyranid Prime, Deathspitter, Scytalons 108
Tervigon 250
Tervigon with Crushing Claws 253

Elite:
3x Venomthropes 93
1x Pyrovore 42
Haruspex 278
Maleceptor 184
1x Tyrant Guard, Lashwhip + Bonesword, 37
1x Tyrant Guard, Scytalons 35
1x Hive Guard, Impaler 48
1x Hive Guard, Shock cannon 39
3x Zoanthropes 120
1x Lictor 45
Deathleaper 90
Red Terror 75

Troops:
10x Termagants, Fleshborers 40
10x Termagants, Devourers 80
10x Termagants, Spinefists 40
10x Hormagaunts, 50
5x Genestealers, Rending Claws, Scytalons 60
5x Genestealers, Rending Claws 60
3x Tyranid Warriors, Boneswords, Scytalons, Flesh hooks 78
3x Tyranid Warriors, 2x Scytalons, Flesh hooks 66
3x Tyranid Warriors, Deathspitter, Scytalons 84
3x Tyranid Warriors, Rending Claws, Scytalons, Flesh hooks 72
3x Ripper Swarms, Spinemaws 39

Fast Attack:
Harpy, 2x Stranglethorn Cannon 178
Harpy, 2x Heavy Venon Cannon 162
3x Sky-Slasher Swarms, Spinemaws 39
10x Gargoyles 60
3x Spore Mines 30
1x Mucolid Spore 20
Hive Crone 156
3x Tyranid Shrikes, 2x Scytalons, Flesh hooks 84
3x Raveners, 2x Scytalons 69
3x Raveners, 2x Scytalons, Spinefists 78
3x Raveners, 2x Scytalons, Deathspitter 93

Dedicated Transport:
Tyrannocyte, Deathspitters 138
Tyrannocyte, Barbed Stranglers 173
Tyrannocyte, Venom Cannons 143

Heavy Support:
1x Carnifex, 2x Scytalons, Bio-plasma, Thresher Scythe 103
1x Carnifex, 4x Deathspitters w/Maggots, Bio-plasma, Thresher Scythe 123
1x Carnifex, Scytalons, 2x Deathspitters w/Maggots, Bio-plasma, Thresher Scythe 113
1x Carnifex, Scytalons, Crushing Claws, Bio-plasma, Thresher Scythe 112
1x Biovore 36
Trygon Prime, Biostatic Rattle 214
Trygon, Pincer Tail 175
Mawloc 105
Exocrine 228
Toxicrene 148
Tyrannofex, Acid Spray 205
Tyrannofex, Fleshborer Hive 202
Tyrannofex, Rupture Cannon 220

Fortifications:
Sporocyst, Deathspitters 119
Sporocyst, Barbed Stranglers 154
Sporocyst, Venom Cannon 124

If you want to add:
Adrenal Glands to monsters 5
Adrenal Glands to anythin else 1
Toxin Sacs to Hormagaunts 2
Toxin Sacs to Hive Guard, Tyrant Guard, Mawlocs, Gargoyles, Termagants, Tervigons 1
Toxin Sacs to Trygon, Trygon Prime 8
Toxin Sacs to Hive Tyrant, Carnifex, Tyranid Warrior, Tyranid Shrike, Genestealer, Tyranid Prime 4

Don't think anybody's mentioned yet, but in regards to mistakes in your pts list:

The Hive Tyrants w/ 2x Scytalons are much cheaper; there's a separate option for two pairs of Monstrous Scything Talons for the HT
Think you've also missed off the pp-tail on the flyrant w/ 4x Deathspitters
The Tyrant Guard also have rending claws 
I think the "1x Carnifex, Scytalons, 2x Deathspitters w/Maggots, Bio-plasma, Thresher Scythe" comes to 117 instead
The Tyrannofex also has to have the powerful limbs and stinger salvo

Hope this helps

[loopstah]

Jun 1, 2017 5:51:13 GMT Opu said:

Don't think anybody's mentioned yet, but in regards to mistakes in your pts list:

The Hive Tyrants w/ 2x Scytalons are much cheaper; there's a separate option for two pairs of Monstrous Scything Talons for the HT
Think you've also missed off the pp-tail on the flyrant w/ 4x Deathspitters
The Tyrant Guard also have rending claws 
I think the "1x Carnifex, Scytalons, 2x Deathspitters w/Maggots, Bio-plasma, Thresher Scythe" comes to 117 instead
The Tyrannofex also has to have the powerful limbs and stinger salvo

Hope this helps

Excellent, thanks.

[keftii]

With the wording "It can also fire Stinger Salvoes", does that mean its optional? The worded it like that on all the Stinger Salvoes, wheres the rest of the gear always seems to be clear that it belongs to base equipment like for example "...is armed with blablabla".


Just a little confused wether we have to buy or we can leave the Stinger Salvoes out..

[nintendofilo]

In the choose armies section there's a point t called reinforcement points, there it states that abilities that allow you to create or replaced destroyed units must be paid from a pool beforehand. So Tervigon will not give free units, free units are pretty much dead now