Space Marines and Militarum

[almostmercury]

So I'm looking for some advice. I've basically inherited a small SM and AM army and I'm not sure what to do with it.

I know that the double battle company is busted.

I wanted to run a list around the sky hammer formation, but assumption marines seem pretty underwhelming... Is it worth it?

Can anyone give me a quick rundown on death star building essentials? Now that chapter tactics can't mix it isn't as obvious as add special rules.

A death star would be a nice competitive option to have and I can easily build a more casual list.

As far as guard goes... What's even
remotely good?

[Deleted]

For a Deathstar:
The site 1d4chan labels this build as "Chapter Master SmashF*****"
with good reason
Take an Iron Hands Captain:
Give him: Chapter Master (+40 points) Relic blade (25) artificer armor (25) Gorgon's Chain (45) and Betrayers Bane (25) and get the "Flesh Is Weak" Iron Hands warlord trait.
So, he has 2+ armor save, 3++ invulnerable save and 4+++ FNP. You have WS6 BS5 T4 S4 W4 I5 A4 Ld 10 Sv 2+ warrior, 5 S6 AP3 attacks on the charge and practically invincible to anything short of D weapon deathblow.
He costs 250 points for something AWESOME

BTW Betrayers Bane is a infinite use combo-melta 


The Guard is pretty good, blobs supported by tanks (they got nice tanks). Aside from orders (USE THEM) is the amount of support HQs you can take. You can take up to 3 of each: Ministorum Preist (War Hymns are cool) Engineseer (to repair your tanks and vehicles) and Primaris Psykers (oh yeah). You want blobs backed up by tanks and artillery, merely crush the enemy under sheer weight of ordnance. They are rather cheap, and while not tough, can be a route to building a better deathstar unit.




     For instance, take a Psykannda Division formation (in the Cadian Supplement) and attach all the psykers to one Infantry platoon unit. For said platoon, get 5 squads and combine them. Take divination powers (or Santic demonology with the Commissar to "Its For Your Own Good" to stop perils from hurting the whole unit. If you, for instance, get a couple successful Sancutuarys (+1 to Invul, if none, 6+) to give them invulnerable saves. Maybe snag a Sanguinary Priest from an Allied Detachment for FNP goodness. So you have +50 Guardsmen rocking 4++ Invulnerable saves, Feel No Pain, 5 strength hits (with Hammerhand, or even more!) and don't forget orders and War Hymns! With Terminator-style deathstars, a lascannon to the face is going to HURT. But with this death-blob, who cares? ONE GUY dead, +49 ready to tear you apart. Seriously, +100 strength 5 attacks on the charge (or more with more psyker shenanigans), thats enough to make Death Company jealous. This might be pricey (in terms of points) and expensive, it might be worth it (after all, if you are trying to play 40K you will need a deep pocket book). Not death-y enough? Liberius Conclave. Maybe an Imperial Knight at the center of the blob for awesome FIRA-POWA! Don't forget bring a bucket for your opponents tears.

   If you bring that in a regular game with your friends though, you might not have any left.

[No One]

Disclaimer: Don't play either, so take as more thoughts than experienced advice .

almostmercury said:

I wanted to run a list around the sky hammer formation, but assumption marines seem pretty underwhelming... Is it worth it?

Not sure what you mean by 'assumption marines'? Auto correct for 'assault marine'? In which case, I'd definitely agree they're underwhelming (though with guaranteed hits from HoW, they hit a bit harder than you'd think) - I think they're more of a semi-useful tax for the devs, tie up or harass a unit. The devs with grav offer an utterly brutal alpha strike - however, they're not too survivable and are basically immobile after the drop. So it's just that alpha strike - if you can't kill enough on the drop, they're toast. Which is why grav cents are often preferred, not having quite as much firepower, but keeping the mobility and survivability, while also more easily having psychic shenanigans (at least as far as the FAQ is concerned with formation special rules - ICs might be able to join it I think? Not 100% sure). I think it'd probably be worth it if you don't have any grav cents though?

Can anyone give me a quick rundown on death star building essentials? Now that chapter tactics can't mix it isn't as obvious as add special rules.

Surviveability (duh), mobility (usually) and firepower of some description (either melee or shooting) are pretty much the general 'basics' of a deathstar. For SM, first is usually done with Conclave (and very rarely, if ever, will adding psychic powers not be a marked increase in surviveability) and stupid psychic powers (though IH Chapter Tactics are often used as well, in conjunction for stupid durability) - Command squad on bikes with apothecary and some mix of storm-shields for the first and second, give them some combination of grav and melee weapons for the third, usually along with ICs (like a Chapter Master). You can do a lot of other things, but most of the 'special rules' require massed allying for it now (mainly grabbing special characters and relics I think), rather than mix and match CT (and I think usually consist mainly of SW for the 'core' of the unit).

Can't really comment much on guard, other than Pasquisher (Pask in a Punisher Russ) is brutal - if you're taking tanks, I can't really see much of a reason to pass him up (costly and moderately short ranged, but incredibly brutal to anything in range, especially once you add in his buddies - executioner with plasma sponsons is a very good one due to Pask's PE Warlord trait allowing rerolls on the Gets Hot). That and wyverns for clearing infantry. I think some of the FW flyers are quite good, and there's some nastiness to be done with the manned artillery and orders (ignores cover S10 AP2 large blasts...) - similar can be done with one of the formations as well.

To the above...

@forteemprah said:

Give him: Chapter Master (+40 points) Relic blade (25) artificer armor (25) Gorgon's Chain (45) and Betrayers Bane (25) and get the "Flesh Is Weak" Iron Hands warlord trait.

...You've sort of missed the point of SmashF*cker (or are looking at an early build). Relic blade is pointless, give him a fist at least - it does more damage for the same cost. The only advantage is initiative, and if he can't survive till Init 1, then you've done something wrong. The guy by himself isn't that hardy (4+ fnp is neat, but relies on a non guaranteed WL trait, and isn't enough for the true unkillability of SmashF*cker). Should be on a bike for mobility and +1T (there's another build in cataphractii for reroll 1s on invul, but it doesn't have mobility - and a melee deathstar without the ability to make combat is pretty useless), join a command squad on bikes with apothecary for a 2+/3++/2+++ and IWND, as well as some friends to take advantage of the tankiness and do some damage, because he doesn't hit the hardest on his own.

So, he has 2+ armor save, 3++ invulnerable save and 4+++ FNP. You have WS6 BS5 T4 S4 W4 I5 A4 Ld 10 Sv 2+ warrior, 5 S6 AP3 attacks on the charge and practically invincible to anything short of D weapon deathblow.

Not with only 4+ fnp and T4 - not only does S8+ ID, but most armies should have the firepower or the weight of dice to push through that save. D will also likely do damage even without Deathblow, as it denies both armour and fnp, leaving him with just a 3++.

(or Santic demonology with the Commissar to "Its For Your Own Good" to stop perils from hurting the whole unit.

Perils killing anything other than the psyker isn't a huge concern (though some of the other results are still bad, namely 2), since it's a 1/6 chance, then ld. The problem's more just dying to the perils in general, getting the powers you want, and getting them off.

If you, for instance, get a couple successful Sancutuarys (+1 to Invul, if none, 6+) to give them invulnerable saves.

Psychic buffs don't stack with themselves - you'd be better off just casting...forewarning? I think (divination power for a 4++) anyway. Or Azrael for the guaranteed 4++, which was/is a bit of a thing. Or more likely invis, ideally from the wyrdvanes if you're taking that formation for the 2+ casting.

Maybe snag a Sanguinary Priest from an Allied Detachment for FNP goodness.

Almost positive that only works on BA models. I think there is a BA relic to give FNP to the unit though.

With Terminator-style deathstars, a lascannon to the face is going to HURT.

If your deathstar is bothered by a lascannon to the face, it's a pretty poor deathstar (TWC with Veil of Time would require ~20 lascannon hits to kill 1 - with invis, that'd require ~120 shots to kill 1).

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2016 9:04:51 GMT No One said:

No One Avatar
Nov 30, 2016 4:04:51 GMT -5 No One said:
Disclaimer: Don't play either, so take as more thoughts than experienced advice .

Why would Marines or Guard be bad?

BTW who are you to correct me on my Deathstar? You're No One! (see what I did there? No hard feelings  )

[No One]

@forteemprah said:

Why would Marines or Guard be bad?

What? Where'd you get that from? Marines are definitely a top tier Codex, and while guard aren't up there, I don't think they're bad. I'm just saying I don't play them, thus my advice might be a tad amiss.

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2016 12:51:39 GMT No One said:

@forteemprah said:

Why would Marines or Guard be bad?

What? Where'd you get that from? Marines are definitely a top tier Codex, and while guard aren't up there, I don't think they're bad. I'm just saying I don't play them, thus my advice might be a tad amiss.

Oh, whoops. Can I safetly assume you play Tyranids?

[No One]

Yes . I just thought I'd chuck some thoughts down. (And now get where you misinterpreted me).

[Deleted]

Nov 30, 2016 13:43:57 GMT No One said:

Yes . I just thought I'd chuck some thoughts down. (And now get where you misinterpreted me).

You said, "Disclaimer: Don't play either, so take as more thoughts than experienced advice ."
Just a grammatical thing, I took "I (understood I) don't play either" as an Imperative, "You (understood you) Don't play"
all good now! Except I am honor bound to purge you, being space marine and all

[Deleted]

By the way almostmercury, totally use the double-demi company. Eldar can flood the field with D strength weapons, insane jet bikes and all, while Necrons get their glance-you-to-death gauss weapons, and don't get me started on marker lights...

Use the cheese! Love the cheese! Win with the cheese!