2k Tournament List

[N.I.B.]

GC models counts as enemy models for Tyranids, doesn't that kind of throw you off?

[No One]

N.I.B. said:

GC models counts as enemy models for Tyranids, doesn't that kind of throw you off?

Nope. As I've said before, it only makes a difference for a couple of rules. ICs (of which I just have patty, and where else am I going to stick him?), invis (basically banned for me), shrouding (I have venoms) and infiltrate (of which the only thing that will be using it are the purestrains, who'll usually want to be well away and/or out of sight anyway. They can still choose to deploy normally, or could outflank. I'm still not sure about them, but that's more a kp thing). Oh, and Shadows, but since when is Shadows useful (I'd probably forget that was a thing anyway). Onslaught is the only nid buff that doesn't specify nid faction, and run and shoot pistols is so helpful .

Warlord trait is about the only big one I can think of, but even then it's just conqueror of cities that they would've cared about, and that only makes a difference for the squad without patty (who has stealth and mtc base) - no reserves and don't need night vision (master of ambush probably would've been useful to have as an option for the nids, but I'd probably be less inclined to give it to the GSC even if they were BB, just due to the lack of ability to counter charge), and all the other WL traits don't affect my models specifically.
I can't think of anything else where it's relevant, so a handful of very minor nerfs.

It makes a massive difference for the formation though...but I'm not taking the formation (even if I could and they were still BB, I prefer the idea of more acolytes anyway).

[No One]

OK, so just remembered that Allies has 1-2 troops. So, will swap the GSC CAD for an Allied detachment for reasons of comp (2 comp for the third CAD, but nothing for an allied detachment). Which means I've got to drop a purestrain squad. Now, couple of things I could do:

1. Drop both. Gives me 60 pts. I'm thinking gargs (mostly since they're painted but also don't need to worry as much about IB as other gaunts, and gives me some screens and shooting/overwatch soakers for the acolytes).
2. Drop 1. Gives me 30 pts. Not sure what I'd spend it on - about all I can think of is switch up a muco squad to a ripper squad, but that still leaves me with 2 easy kp (which was an issue I had with the purestrains), and far more importantly, I currently only have 7 bases (so would need to scrounge up an extra 2).

Leaning heavily towards 1, but thoughts? Or any other suggestions? Something else to do with them, or the points?

(Am considering consolidating the venoms for comp/kill point reasons - with the lack of nid ground presence, a single bubble may be enough, though of course that would be very vulnerable to ignores cover killing both. Unfortunately won't have much opportunity to test before lists are due, so will probably just stick with what I know works).

[No One]

So, lists have to be in soon, and I'd like to have at least one play before submitting (should have a game later in the week). So, any last thoughts?

CAD 1:
HQ:
Flyrant 240
Flyrant 240
Elites:
Venom 45
Venom 45
Zoan 50
Troops:
3xRippers 45
3xRippers 45
Fast attack:
10xGargoyles 60
Heavy Assault:
Dakkafex (with spine banks) 155
Mawloc 140
Mawloc 140

CAD 2:
HQ:
Flyrant 240
Flyrant 240
Troops:
Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15

Allies (GSC):
HQ:
Patty 115
Troops:
12xAcolytes 85
12xAcolytes 85

Total: 2000 pts.

[No One]

Gah, list's due tomorrow, and I'm still waffling on some minor changes - namely, I should be picking up some more ripper swarms soon, so I was thinking drop the gargs for rippers+adrenal on the fex. Same kill points, better scoring ability. Mainly because of something giga said, that I pretty much agree with: "10 gargs will do nothing but speedbump something if they aren't evaporated off the board by small arms fire." Of course, they offer screening for the acolytes, and give my opponent something else to shoot. But...no idea if it's worth it. (Still leaning towards the gargs, since I've played that list and the gargs did what they were supposed to. And the acolytes are working great for me, so having something that means they survive longer is good. But I've basically just been playing against drop gladius recently, without much opportunity to play other things, so I'm far more concerned about how they'd stack up against other armies, that don't come right in my face as much.)

(Edit: mattblowers , I know you used gargs a lot. Thoughts, if this even pings you?)

[mattblowers]

Aug 12, 2016 11:58:39 GMT No One said:

Gah, list's due tomorrow, and I'm still waffling on some minor changes - namely, I should be picking up some more ripper swarms soon, so I was thinking drop the gargs for rippers+adrenal on the fex. Same kill points, better scoring ability. Mainly because of something giga said, that I pretty much agree with: "10 gargs will do nothing but speedbump something if they aren't evaporated off the board by small arms fire." Of course, they offer screening for the acolytes, and give my opponent something else to shoot. But...no idea if it's worth it. (Still leaning towards the gargs, since I've played that list and the gargs did what they were supposed to. And the acolytes are working great for me, so having something that means they survive longer is good. But I've basically just been playing against drop gladius recently, without much opportunity to play other things, so I'm far more concerned about how they'd stack up against other armies, that don't come right in my face as much.)

(Edit: mattblowers , I know you used gargs a lot. Thoughts, if this even pings you?)

I have used them a lot, but typically it was in skyblight where they are ObSec too. The no DS on respawning kinda kills them for me though. As for brood sizes 12 is the best size I have found. They don't appear to be anymore of a threat than 10 (you go 15+ and they get targeted) but they survive almost any attack with 1 or 2 models left which forces overkill. Rippers are great too with the fearless, however gargs can put wounds on anything, they force blind checks, and their IB isn't nearly as bad as some others, you just lose control for a turn and they have target closest enemy in shooting phase. With proper positioning that won't matter.

[No One]

mattblowers said:

As for brood sizes 12 is the best size I have found. They don't appear to be anymore of a threat than 10 (you go 15+ and they get targeted) but they survive almost any attack with 1 or 2 models left which forces overkill.

Yeah, would prefer to bump them up to 12, but the only thing I'm willing to drop is the spine banks, which isn't enough for even 1.

however gargs can put wounds on anything, they force blind checks, and their IB isn't nearly as bad as some others, you just lose control for a turn and they have target closest enemy in shooting phase.

My concern is the likelihood of them making combat. Rippers can just sit on an objective (though I've been finding they just come in when I don't need them yet, so another one probably wouldn't help there...) while the gargs would likely just die. Do like the IB though - so much less punishing than everything else. Heck, the 1-3 gives +1 cover, can be removed if synapse is near, and prevents IB in the next phase! Positively lovely by comparison.

Edit: And thoughts on the list in general?

[mattblowers]

Aug 12, 2016 13:15:38 GMT No One said:

Edit: And thoughts on the list in general?

It's got 4 flyrants and they'll do the bulk of the work. I don't see anything that looks bad, my only concern is it seems a tad unfocused. I like everything in your list, I'm just not sure I love them together. I love tuna steak and I love pie, but I bet that tuna pie would be terrible. How my units work together is more important than what they are. Ie. when I run the GSC formation, I pair it with MSU genestealer units with BL upgrade (of course a flyrant base) and it's worked pretty well provided the table has some cover. It works because of how much pressure I can assert from units that act similarly. I love rippers, but when I run them, I usually run 4+ units of them. If I take mawlocs I usually take 3 and I wouldn't take GSC units with them. When I take gargoyles, I put 50+ on the table. I like to do something really well rather than a few things moderately. Again this is just me. I don't know what you have planned for your army, or how it plays because I haven't used it; you might very well have a plan that will work well, I just don't see it. I usually know how I plan on playing my game before I even see my opponent. I might vary how I use reserves according to my opponent, but my overall game strategy usually doesn't change much after the list is done. I start with a goal (strategy) in mind first and then build a list to do that.

[No One]

Nah, that's mostly my opinion as well, I'm just limited by what I own - so it's either a tad unfocused, but mostly solid, or not going at all.

The rippers I feel work fine - grab an objective or 2, score some points, fill troop requirements - even just 1's fine, though I think 2 works better. When there's kp in every mission, I just think 4 would be giving up too much, especially when I've got no way to control when they come in - 4 VP would be great, but if they all come in and I've only got 1 secure objective card or something? There's still things I could do, but a lot less worth it.

I don't see a major issue with mawlocs and gsc - I'd admit that it'd probably be better to pick one and focus, but they're able to do work on their own I think (they certainly have been so far, but MSU drop gladius is a good target for the cult, so again uncertain exactly how they'll fare against other lists). Gives you a bit of a ground presence without really compromising anything. Gargs, definitely agree. The main issue is the dakkafex, zoan and gargs for me. Need synapse without a proper synapse net, trying to provide ground presence without being hugely effective at that (though the GSC helps with that). In an ideal world, I'd drop those for some more acolytes I think, or another mawloc (both starts to run into issues with comp) - but that's about all I could take with the models I have. Except more gribblies, but I don't like that, especially with synapse and just moving that many models with a time limit.

mattblowers said:

I don't know what you have planned for your army, or how it plays because I haven't used it; you might very well have a plan that will work well, I just don't see it. I usually know how I plan on playing my game before I even see my opponent. I might vary how I use reserves according to my opponent, but my overall game strategy usually doesn't change much after the list is done. I start with a goal (strategy) in mind first and then build a list to do that.

The general 'plan' (because I don't have enough experience with the game at a properly competitive level to be truly confident as to my ability to effectively plan in advance - part of the reason I'm wanting to go, get some experience against people who know what they're doing, with good lists. I think I'm pretty decent at the turn by turn stuff and am picking stuff up well, but I don't usually have a longer term plan, though I've often got ideas on what I want to do depending on what they do/list etc) is mainly to use the cult/fex as area denial. Plonk in terrain on objectives midfield, score points and rend anything that gets close to death, while flyrants/mawlocs do the actual heavy lifting of killing things. With potential shrouded on everything (admittedly I've got shrouding every game so far, so I'm probably banking too much on that. No invis though, so that does improve my chances) and stealth on patty's squad, they'll be tricky to shift. Or try and deny/punish drop pod lists (or ds in general), both as a general 'can't land here' and a threat to anything that lands close.

My list was more built with a focus on 'what I have', but I did sort of have a general idea of what I was going for - flyrants handling killing stuff, while cult/rippers went after maelstrom. Ideally have stuff survive for EW (likely by being ignored), or mawlocs re-burrowing (but that's not something I've really remembered to do...)

Edit: Eh, stuff it - list submitted.

[mattblowers]

Best of luck to you. With four flyrants you certainly won't suck. Have good target priority and don't forget to focus on the mission. People get caught up in the moment and killing that thing (me too) and forget to focus down and score the mission. Let us know how it goes.

[gigasnail]

Good luck!

[No One]

Well, day 1's over. Went really well: will post up proper bat reps (provided I can actually remember what happened) probably Tuesday (depends if I can even think Monday ). But quick run down:

Game 1: Versus Tau. Pretty standard, 2 squads of broadsides, 2 riptides, a bunch of sniper drones and a knight (I almost forgot it, since it didn't really do much). I didn't kill much (no mawlocs came in T2, 1 came in T3 and missed the broadsides ), he'd only failed to kill 1 flyrant and both mawlocs (about all I had left). Ended up losing by only 2 vp, since I managed to snag 3/5 EW (mawloc scattered 11 inches and rolled a bad run, or I would've had 4 and won ), and was reasonably close on maelstrom and KP. All in all, happy with how it ended up - made some mistakes, but managed to scrape through quite well. When I saw who I was playing (I knew he played this sort of Tau, and he knows what he's doing), I thought I'd probably lose pretty badly. Game score: 9-11.

Game 2: Versus Raven Guard with storm raven, 2 stormhawks and a knight. This game went really badly for my opponent. I think he failed something like 2/3 of his saves T1 (losing a tac squad and a 6 man assault marine squad+captain to 2 flyrants). Flyrants were able to take down the flyers, mawlocs came up and ate everything (then got killed by the knight). Ended up tabling him. 19-1 (after comp)

Game 3: Eldar - footdar with seer council. He again didn't roll the greatest, I was able to take out the dangerous stuff (war walkers with scat lasers and basically all of the warp spider unit) with my flyrants, mawlocs and flyrants killed stuff while he failed to do anything meaningful in return. Managed to grab all of the objectives on the last turn for supremacy and EW dominance. 19-1 (after comp).

So far so good - been a lot of fun, and pretty happy with how I've played on the whole.

Edit: From what I saw of armies today, tomorrow I'm likely to be up against scat packs+wk. Joy.

[No One]

Day 2...didn't go so well. Unfortunately by almost every metric.

Game 4: Versus Inquisitor (Plasma blob with Coteaz, bunch of guys in a psybolt raider) and 2 knights. I felt I mostly played well (though I didn't actually do much ), but really stuffed up by going for a WL on the raider - perils, grounded, dead next turn. Ended up being 11-9, so draw after comp.

Game 5: My first game vs Skitarii/Ad Mech. With War Convo. Fun. Made what was probably a serious error in deployment, partly because I wasn't very familiar with either, but was really able to pull through with final turn maelstrom/EW (grabbed his objective, denied him mine with mawloc) to keep it to a...I think it was 11-9 loss (I think it was a draw before comp, but not positive), despite only having 2 flyrants and a mawloc left alive by game end.

Game 6: Versus Tau again . Was a really bad game, on several levels. Opponent wasn't playing quickly (not slow playing or anything, but his army was massed kroot+ethereal and missile-broadsides with drones, so a ton of dice, with plenty of rerolls - slowed things down quite a bit), I wasn't playing at my best either. Failed to keep track of time well, ended on my T3 (I went first as well), with me banking on another turn (WL had flown off, didn't go for objective grabbing with mawlocs etc). Lost 11-9, 13-7 after comp. A poor way to end the tournament unfortunately . Also, @kazetande: the TO agreed with you about the ruins thing . So I was able to hit his models clustered on top of the skyshield (except I didn't, because 1 mawloc failed to come in twice, and the other scattered off anything important) - of course, personally I think I would've been able to hit on top of the skyshield anyway (since it specifies ruin, which it definitely isn't).

Ended 2W:1D:3L (I think 3W:1D:2L without comp).


And something I'm sure gigasnail will appreciate: it was exactly the same placement for overall (i.e. 14 comp and less) as that of the 'open' (i.e. 30 comp). Which really goes to show how accurate comp is at gauging armies . (I also heard some complaints about some guy who was running a nasty 14 comp list - something like Ravenguard deathstar with Tau allies I think. Even he was going 'how the heck is this 14 comp'?)

[kazetanade]

Apparently I will need to find out more about this Ravenguard Deathstar.

Congrats on making it through the tourney regardless, I think most of the losses were close enough to not be hung up about them.

Huzzah on the ruins! =p But unluck on the stuff not coming in.

What happened in the War Convo game?

[No One]

kazetanade said:

Apparently I will need to find out more about this Ravenguard Deathstar.

Unfortunately lists aren't likely to be posted for a while (if at all), so I can't help you heaps. I think it was just command squad with Darkshroud, an IC of some description (possibly Sammael), and some Libs (may or may not have been their version of conclave, no idea what they were rolling on either, since Invis and the new SM ones are comped quite hard). Tau was riptide and some suits (not sure if broadside or crisis), and there was also an assassin along for the party (would actually mean that the libs couldn't have been the formation, since it was a max of 3 detachments).

Congrats on making it through the tourney regardless, I think most of the losses were close enough to not be hung up about them.

Oh yeah, seriously stoked about how close I kept my losses. With a couple of dice rolls going differently, or me not stuffing up a couple of key plays, I likely could've won a lot of them - but still happy with how I did (with the exception of the last game, but eh). Edit: Ended up placing 15th out of 54, so very happy with that.

What happened in the War Convo game?

There wasn't much terrain (it was a nid board, so on the one hand, it looked awesome, and was cool to play on with nids. On the other...no ruins, and not much else in the way of terrain). There were some big LoS blocking rock formations...but they weren't very wide, so I could only really fit one flyrant behind them. I had the reroll reserves and +1 seize trait, so I wanted my WL on the board to reroll reserves. But I didn't want him to die horribly, so I deployed another flyrant with him (as well as another behind another rock formation on the other side of my dz), who wasn't as well hidden and was more forward, and last flyrant in reserves. I failed to seize, he moved up and shot my forward flyrant - apparently that unit had a neg 1 cover rule. So, lost 3 wounds on that flyrant despite jinking (because it couldn't hide) - I think I lost another wound to something else, but I'm not sure. And I just rolled super unlucky on the other flyrant - gat knight into him, 5 wounds. All good, easily obscured. 3 1s. So, 2 flyrants on 1 wound and my warlord, other flyrant in reserves. If I'd just deployed my WL on the top, and reserved the rest, I'd likely have had 2 flyrants coming in T2 on full wounds, rather than 2 on 1 wound. May have been risky, since I'm not sure if he'd been able to get things into range/LoS (I think the skitarii would've been out of range/LoS. The grav I know would've been. The knight...maybe). But I've never been in a situation where I felt that null deploying was actually a useful or viable option, so not something I've got any practice or experience with.

After that, it was just him moping up my backfield with rustalkers plus knight (my cultists failed to do anything meaningful in assault over the entire tournament *sigh*), flyrants came in and were surprisingly effective for only being on 1 wound each (I mean, they still died, but I think one of them stuck around for another round of shooting), mawloc came in, scattered. Rippers came in (went for 3 units on his board edge, got it - rolled a 1. Could've actually went for something else, possibly, since I ended up with 4 units. But I think that relied on gargs not dying, so...). Last flyrant came in, killed grav and the cognis las guys, then dropped for last turn objectives (WL was grounded, so was able to charge his WL to kill him and grab his EW objective, mawloc was able to come up and contest mine ).

Edit 2: Will try to see what I can remember and post up proper bat reps tonight/tomorrow.