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Post by gigasnail on Apr 22, 2015 3:13:18 GMT
first run at a khorne list. i had wanted a unit of brazen onslaught so i could run bloodcrushers with my choppy khorne lord, but it's not happening if i'm using the slaughter cult (too much (please do not swear), and the crushers too expensive). i really don't know what to think about the book, it's *almost* good, just like many of the units in it (possessed, bloodcrushers, wtfffff were they thinking) and some of the formations are really derp. there was no reason to make us take warp talons...the new raptors are a gorgeous kit and we'd be ready to take them already. sheesh. anyway, here is first run. this list is mostly for fun, as i don't really think it's top end. give me ideas and show me i'm wrong; i love the idea of the book but i'm not sold. c&c welcome.
1848 khorn daemonkin
bloodhost detachment
slaughtercult:
lord, juggy, fist/claw, sigil, helm (generates extra attacks on successful hit, extra attacks do not generate more attacks)
X8 bloodletters
X8 bloodletters
X8 cultists
X8 cultists
spawn
spawn
X5 possessed
war engine (X4)
maulerfiend, whips
maulerfiend, whips
forgefiend, X2 hades X1 ecannon
forgefiend, X2 hades X1 ecannon
gorepack
X16 flesh hounds
X3 bikes, X2 melta, combimelta
X3 bikes, X2 melta, combimelta
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Post by blackrainbow on Apr 22, 2015 3:26:28 GMT
Lots of fast units, nice. So, is 'old Juggy running behind a screen then? And whats the plan for the bloodletters, DS or run for objectives?
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 22, 2015 3:39:21 GMT
lord is with the dogs for choppy/punchy 12" move + 2d6" charge delivery multi-assault. plan for the bloodletters is to kill the other guy's objective holders and/or die; they're part of slaughtercult not a CAD so don't have OS themselves.
problem i'm having is that the slaughtercult bonus is so good, you really, really want it but list building with it with even a toe out of the friendzone is a pain in the ass. there's so much (please do not swear) you have to take it gets in the way of making the list effective. i am going to look at either a CAD+ allied daemons or something too; daemonkin daemon IC's are fearless and can join C:D making them fearless as well. a C:DK herald on juggy can join a unit of C:D dogs or bloodcrushers, making them fearless, and keeping options open for Bel'akor or something else with some punch. CSM allies could work too, classic axe of blind fury juggy lord or a nurgle fist/claw bikelord can join a unit of C:DK dogs or crushers (they don't have the rules that stop non-daemons from joining, and there is no issue w/ marks because the dogs/crushers aren't marked) with an easy helldrake, another maulerfiend/forgefiend, and possibly plague marines.
even a CAD+gorepack would be very freeing. but, gah, giving up the +1 bloodtithe/turn and free bonus power...maddening.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 22, 2015 3:41:12 GMT
also, trying to stay (for now) in the ITC army building framework (i.e. two sources, but no double CAD though CAD+bloodhost would be kosher).
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Post by blackrainbow on Apr 22, 2015 4:06:41 GMT
I guess it boils down to, do you want to build the list around the bloodtithe, or just get some daemons in their face and eat lunch. Also, I'm assuming even your meta is pretty top-tier, so does bloodtithe bennies balance out the tax, all in consideration of what you expect to play?
Since this is still so new, just go with that list for a weekend or two and see how it pans out - tweak from there. Boring advice, but this early in a release it's about all we got.
As an alternative, drop slaughtercult and go balls-in-face speed: gorepack and khorne's bloodstorm! then throw-in some other shin-diggy gap-fillers. That's what I may try. It's also the only khorn'ish models I have. Twenty raptors and 10 warptalons in a great deal ealier, damn you cool looking models.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 22, 2015 4:22:29 GMT
i'll probably end up with a more CAD oriented list; there is too much junk in the trunk to fall in love with the bloodhost. the chaff units are ok and fluffy, i get it. the issue is even the killy units are going to be dying in droves (because that's what they do when you have a bunch of assault dudes hoofing it across the table), there's not a lot of need for chaff.
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Post by blackrainbow on Apr 22, 2015 14:18:59 GMT
There, now wasn't that easy. Go Team-Bloodgod!
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Post by WestRider on Apr 22, 2015 14:54:01 GMT
Looking pretty similar to the direction I was going with it, except I took more Spawn and 3 MaulerFiends, but I don't have any ForgeFiends.
The two Detachment limitation really crimps some of the fun possibilities, but there's one TO around here who usually runs a limit of three, and so I'm thinking Daemonkin CAD+CSM Allied Detachment+Gorepack (Because I'm down for 2 Bike Squads and a bunch of Puppies anyhow, so why not HoW bonuses) for his events.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 22, 2015 17:24:05 GMT
I don't have fiends either, I'll be proxying until I settle on a build that doesn't make me claw my own eyes out.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 22, 2015 21:41:56 GMT
N.I.B. I remember you said you'd played against DK and liked what you saw but I can't find the thread now. Do you remember what your opponent brought? Any thoughts here? I am thinking I'll be looking harder at a CAD/ally or CAD/gorepack or something along those lines. I think I'll be keeping it simple and just put as many fast walkers, dogs, and choppy lords as I can and season with MSU cultists, and ally in belakor, a fire raptor, sicaran, w/e's clever.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 23, 2015 4:31:58 GMT
so, ignoring the blood host detachment as having too much gristle along with the juicy, juicy meatbuffs, looking at something based around a CAD:
note: i'm ditching the helm; it only generates hits on a 6, NOT on every successful hit. it's ok for a 15 point artifact, but KD doesn't have access to daemon weapons/axe of blind fury so it's not likely do do much.
CAD 1814/1850
lord, juggy, sigil, axe of khorne, powerfist
X8 cultists
X8 cultists
X15 dogs
X15 dogs
heldrake (baleflamer)
maulerfiend (lasher)
maulerfiend (lasher)
maulerfiend (lasher)
allied
lord, juggy, sigil, axe of khorne, powerfist
X8 cultists
heldrake (balefire)
some points left over, but not a lot available in the way of options aside from just adding meltabombs and/or more cultists. two drakes, 3 fast walkers, and two units of dogs with juggylords (axe for regular guys, fists for vehicles). cultists to either score or die (either way, it's a win). all combat threats have a 12" move.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 23, 2015 4:35:55 GMT
i'll do a version with allied CSM bel'akor and the D-weapon BT tag teaming (invisibility to keep the BT alive while on the ground/running for the sun with that great big stupid axe lol) but i'm tired right now.
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Post by WestRider on Apr 23, 2015 5:23:16 GMT
Something I realized while poking at CSM Ally versions is that only the BftBG Units can actually generate Blood Tithe, so if you go too heavily into Allies, you start to have to worry about how to get the Daemonkin stuff to do the actual killing.
I also think the Blade of Endless Bloodshed is worth a look if not using the Blood Host. It takes a bit longer to start kicking in, but if you plan your Assaults well, it should be providing an extra two Blood Tithe per Game Turn from Turn 2-3 on.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 23, 2015 5:55:19 GMT
yeah, the blade is pretty decent and not awfully costed.
with CSM or C:D allies, i'd only take them for essentials/gap filling. the whole army is so (please do not swear) wonky though.
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Post by gigasnail on Apr 28, 2015 2:47:39 GMT
thinking about things, i thought 'what makes the daemonkin different than CSM?' because i really don't care for random warp storm craptables (for playing daemons primary). i thought about just doing daemonkin allies and came up with:
1848/1850
CSM CAD
lord, MoK, axe of blind fury/bolt pistol, gift of mutation, melta bombs, sigil, juggernaught, VotlW
X10 cultists, ccw/pistol
X10 cultists, ccw/pistol
heldrake, baleflamer
heldrake, baleflamer
X3 obliterator, nurgle, VotlW
X2 obliterator, nurgle, VotlW
Fire Raptor Gunship, autocannon battery, maelific ammunition
Daemonkin ally
lord, MoK, axe of khorne/bolt pistol, collar of khorne, sigil
X20 flesh hounds
X13 cultists, MoK, ccw/pistol
it's unpleasant and unsubtle. 20 dogs + 2 choppy lords run right up the middle, oblits either DS for melta/flamer or start on board sniping T1. birds come on and burninate. if needed, can detach one of hte lords over to the knorne cultists to punch something to death (khorne cultists have a boatload of attacks and are great ablative wounds, they just need a fearless lord for fearless). only big change i'd make would be to add lasher maulerfiends in instead of one of the units of oblits, possibly going whole hog and replacing the oblits entirely (sounding better by the second).
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