|
|
Post by yowster12 on Jan 29, 2015 19:41:54 GMT
Except it will be harder to sweep necrons now. Before I would just beat the living snot out of them and then sweep em. Now they get a 4+ re-roll 1's or if orb a 4+ rerollable once a game... and that is if there are not 2 Units of Wraiths being plain better in combat than anything we have. Moving faster, hitting harder and really surviving. Before I would pelt them with Dev shots wound them on 2's and be happy. Now I wound them on 3 with the best gun in the codex and if they are in a Wraith something or another they get RP for a Turn...
as NIB said. We are the kings of the air. Now we have to hope to kill the wraiths fast enough before they chew through our obj grabbers...all the while Fighting their immortal legions(wanted to say it in a cool way but you get the idea)
|
|
|
|
Post by N.I.B. on Jan 29, 2015 20:42:59 GMT
Edit - the new way RP works is also a nerf. As is today, you can kill a Necron lord and have it annoyingly stand up again and again, after your shooting/combat phase is over. I've lost several games due to this/dropped tournaments placings. Really really annoying. No more I tell you! The new way it works, from what I gather, is that RP is basically a ward save (that doesn't stack with FNP) that you roll immediately. If you kill something, and it fails armour/Invo/RP save, it's dead and stays dead. Tactically, it means you can secure a zone much easier against Necrons. Except in some extreme corner case situations the new RP is almost always better. Now you get roll RP on every single wound lost instead of the last one, so it will take more wounds on average to kill. Personally I would prefer to have my Overlord standing and hitting back with a War scythe, than on his back doing nothing hoping he will stand back up at the end of phase. I don't mind having to put more shots into a Necron to kill it, if it gives me control. Thing is, with how RP work currently, I often find myself killing off a dude and having shots left. Then it stands back up, up to 3" from the death location, and can charge in it's following turn. No more of those shenanigans. I'll gladly accept tougher Necrons. Wraiths look like a harder pill to swallow, but in the end I applaud the change to from shooty to cc Necrons. Get over here and let's scrap, let's see who wins the attrition war. Sounds like more fun than removing models from the table while staring at the AV13 wall. |
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jan 29, 2015 20:44:18 GMT
At least they don't have hit and run.
|
|
|
|
Post by nubitron9000 on Jan 29, 2015 22:15:46 GMT
Yea i was freaking out for a minute about the res orb/reanimation protocols thing (as much as a normal person can freak out about plastic men)... but allowing it to digest, I'm liking it. It's a benefit to those models w/ multiple wounds as you can take the RP on those wounds instead of having to die first and coming back w/ 1 wound. PLUS there's plenty of wargear/models/formations that work like the old Res Orb did (making it a 4+ FNP...err RP) and even some things that allow you to re-roll 1's..... PLUS the new Res Orb seems like it can be useful even if it is only single use. When it comes down to it,there's always that ONE turn where all of a sudden you get crushed (often 2 or 3). Can you imagine getting the chance to reroll those 4+ RP's and hit back! This dex seems to have a lot of little wonky things that will be cool to pair and strategize to get useful synergies! e.g. someone said the bit about transporting a blob of guys w/ the cryptek and then popping the solar flare thing.... that sounds friggin awesome! I just remember around this time last year when the leaks hit and all the wishlisting dreams died for the nids and the pain started settling in... with this codex, i'm left pretty damn excited!
|
|
|
|
Post by tylertt on Jan 30, 2015 3:10:18 GMT
I'm actually very excited to play the new Crons. I have a feeling Wraith spam will be even harder to deal with since they now get the +5 RP roll too. It will definitely make them a tougher unit on the table.
|
|
|
|
Post by WestRider on Jan 30, 2015 3:24:21 GMT
Raveners just got the short end of the stick in a bunch of ways. Compare them to Chaos Spawn, too. It's just depressing. Tyranids are going to rule the assault phase against crons so I'm not sure it's all that problematic. Raveners aren't the best thing since bread, but they are decent tool in our chest. I find the sub-swarm to actually be pretty good despite the negative press and all the units in that formation are subpar to most comparable units from other armies. I'm not talking specifically about Raveners in the matchup with Crons. Compare Raveners point-for-point with just about any other Beast Unit in the Game, and they come out unimpressive. |
|
|
|
Post by phayze on Jan 30, 2015 4:08:00 GMT
So looking it over, the Overlord on a CCB has become even worse as an unkillable unit.
because the overlord can take technoarcana, and there are no restrictions, he can buy his 2+ armor, a dispersion shield for 3++, a Phylactery for IWND on the vehicle and himself (I think), the special orb for 4+ RP rerollable and a fabricator claw for repairing a HP.
2+/3++ on the lord, 4+ jink on the barge w/3 HP, AV13. Overlord has 5+ IWND and 4+ rerollable RP, Barge has 4+ repair from the lord, 5+ IWND, and 6+ Living metal to repair HP. sick.
|
|
|
|
Post by gigasnail on Jan 30, 2015 4:56:14 GMT
i mean, you can (i don't have the book until tomorrow, so i can't verify your itemization but let's take it for granted you can for the sake of argument). but should you? how much does all that mess cost? you can do a dakka/egrub/regen/OA/toxin/tail stinger flyrant with fighter ace, but it's not a great idea because it's crazy points.
|
|
|
|
Post by jesses on Jan 30, 2015 6:36:22 GMT
So looking it over, the Overlord on a CCB has become even worse as an unkillable unit. because the overlord can take technoarcana, and there are no restrictions, he can buy his 2+ armor, a dispersion shield for 3++, a Phylactery for IWND on the vehicle and himself (I think), the special orb for 4+ RP rerollable and a fabricator claw for repairing a HP. 2+/3++ on the lord, 4+ jink on the barge w/3 HP, AV13. Overlord has 5+ IWND and 4+ rerollable RP, Barge has 4+ repair from the lord, 5+ IWND, and 6+ Living metal to repair HP. sick. I don't have the book yet but I am 80% certain that Dispersion Shields are Lychguard only and Fabricator Claws are Tomb Spyders only. Also the Living Metal 6+ only applies to Heavy and Super Heavy vehicles (so Monolith, Obelisk and T. Vault). Res Orbs are one use only (even the special one) so the best they can do is get two phases of full re-roll and 1's the rest of the time. Also that model would be somewhere north of 400 points, possibly 500. A CCB is going to be decent, but Flyrants will still be able to handle them. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmyp on Jan 30, 2015 6:49:38 GMT
Get my necron codex after work today woohoo!
|
|
|
|
Post by mattblowers on Jan 30, 2015 12:20:51 GMT
Except it will be harder to sweep necrons now. Before I would just beat the living snot out of them and then sweep em. Now they get a 4+ re-roll 1's or if orb a 4+ rerollable once a game... and that is if there are not 2 Units of Wraiths being plain better in combat than anything we have. Moving faster, hitting harder and really surviving. Before I would pelt them with Dev shots wound them on 2's and be happy. Now I wound them on 3 with the best gun in the codex and if they are in a Wraith something or another they get RP for a Turn... as NIB said. We are the kings of the air. Now we have to hope to kill the wraiths fast enough before they chew through our obj grabbers...all the while Fighting their immortal legions(wanted to say it in a cool way but you get the idea) Try gargs. Those wraiths aren't going anywhere. |
|
|
|
Post by britishbill on Jan 30, 2015 12:47:08 GMT
I get the book today and am looking forward to it. There are a number assumptions I am seeing here which if you are playing against Necrons are probably worst case.
Take wraiths with RP. This does not occur automatically. You need to take the formation which carries a spider and scarab tax. Even then there three possible bonuses you can get, only one is RP. Do you get to choose which one, does it cycle through them, we don't know yet. Suppose you want to take praetorians. They got better. Using the formation you must take 2 squads and the stalker. Kind of restrictive.
My belief is that we will find that most Necron armies will be based on the standard FOC with a formation added. I think the tax added to useful units in the formations will be too high and make the army selection too restrictive to go the Decurian route. Only my view and I am looking forward to getting the book.
Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread, I have really enjoyed reading all the opinions expressed but a special thanks to Jackedup who has given us the information necessary to actually have the discussion. I am so looking forward to blowing the dust off of my Lychguard and my destroyers who were not making my lists previously.
|
|
|
|
Post by taizenium on Jan 30, 2015 16:29:56 GMT
Hey folks, dropping in to lodge a big thanks to jackedup. This has been the best source of information on the new Necron codex on the internet, bar none. A lot of people, myself included, have been following this source with bated breath to hear whether this codex would lead our zombie robot overlords into obscurity or a new golden age, and despite a few big disappointments and missed opportunities what we've been delivered has included pretty intra-faction balance and at least a few options for almost any play style. As a long-time Necron player, I'm psyched to see Lychguard and Flayed Ones become solid options instead of dead entries, and to hear how a Decurion will actually fit together (even if it is just a little overcomplicated). Doomsday arks are some of the most powerful artillery in a standard game, and the new Reanimation Protocols is a blanket upgrade for the army even if its streamlined function is decidedly less interesting and unique. I wish the Monolith had gotten something... it sounds like it'll still need to snap-fire its heavy-bolter-equivalent corners, and still has all its prior drawbacks. Likewise with the C'tan: 240+ points is not a price I'm happy to pay for a weapon that (I just know) will roll whatever form I want least, and do it after I choose the target. Still, this book sounds pretty consistent overall, keeping all the good old options viable while introducing new styles of play and toning back the cheese (I think we all knew snap-firing twin-linked tesla during a jink was too good). I'll pour one out for the old Death Ray, and remember the days of real Necron ground-to-air weapons, but you've given me what I need to go on. So before the thread goes dead, I just want to thank the poster and community for keeping a light out for the Necron players on the net. You guys rock.  |
|
|
|
Post by ackoogin on Jan 30, 2015 19:38:52 GMT
So looking it over, the Overlord on a CCB has become even worse as an unkillable unit. because the overlord can take technoarcana, and there are no restrictions, he can buy his 2+ armor, a dispersion shield for 3++, a Phylactery for IWND on the vehicle and himself (I think), the special orb for 4+ RP rerollable and a fabricator claw for repairing a HP. 2+/3++ on the lord, 4+ jink on the barge w/3 HP, AV13. Overlord has 5+ IWND and 4+ rerollable RP, Barge has 4+ repair from the lord, 5+ IWND, and 6+ Living metal to repair HP. sick. He can take 2+/4++ at best. Relics are one per model and shield/claw are not options. |
|
|
|
Post by armyofterror on Jan 31, 2015 4:03:45 GMT
Reading over my new codex and have a quick question. Under the Doomsday Ark, it labels it's big gun as "Primary Weapon 1"... Ugh, any one know what a primary weapon is/does? Is that a new rule in 7th that I missed?
|
|
