How to Introduce People to the Wargaming Hobby

[Xantige]

The title speaks for itself more or less. College is basically over for me and my friends, and so I finally have time to paint and game. The problem is I'm sort of alone in the hobby right now. Yes, I have a local club filled with gamers, but I'm shy and I don't feel like I fit in with the other wargamers there, it's an older, male crowd for the most part. Plus, I'd also like to bond with my friends and find more things to do than just hang out or draw.

The problem is, I don't really know how to pitch wargaming to my friends. I feel a bit dorky everytime I mention it, and I'm not good with words (at least not in a sales person way). I also worry that I might hype it up to be something its not, sort of like how the people who work in GW stores pitch a very idealized 40k to all passerbys, but I don't want to make it sound like a bad hobby either.

So I'm looking for advice on what to say, when to say it, or what to do. To complicate things a bit more, I've fallen out of touch with how 40k is played (all the 6th ed rules were purged to make room for school stuff), so I'm not in any shape to host a smooth demo game of that. And that's about the only system I have currently.

My friends are mostly artists, so the painting may appeal to them. A couple are into D&D as well. My worry is that the cost and storage will be what puts them off, or that they may flake off a week or two in.

In the past I tried to appeal to my gamer friend with the game aspect, and just used my own armies, but she had no respect for the models -- how could she? She's never put hours and hours into model painting -- and she had no commitment to even the game. So she got very power-gamey very quickly. And she liked playing with the Marines (I used the AoBR starter models) simply because they always had the winning edge over the Orks. I'm not sure if that was just her, or what happens when you take away the collecting, painting and modeling aspects of it all.

[robomummy]

I had the same problem, luckily for me my friends already knew about the lore of 40k (we play the FFG 40k RPGs frequently). I normally bring 2 500 point armies to school with me so that people can get a good understanding of how to play without needing to buy their own models. I wouldn't go above 500 points as they might get bored and 500 point games only take about an hour or so to play. Just remember in this case starter sets are your friend.

If your friend keeps trying to break the game maybe make up a scenario. for example AoBR have a few space marines see how long they can hold out against an endless tide of boyz until their drop ship picks them up or something like that. Remember this is a game designed to play for fun, if a mission or scenario isn't fun for everyone then change it so that it is or make up your own. Eventually if they play enough games they might consider buying their own models. If they do that then I recommend that they get 500 point armies since those can usually be made quickly and relatively cheaply (or let them proxy). Either way if enough people end up liking the game then you might be able to get a decent sized group.

[Davor]

You goat be really careful. It's hard to do. How do you tell people you want to introduce them into a game where it's really imbalanced, very slow paced and can be very boring. Also the company doesn't really care about their customers (customer service does but not the higher ups) or have respect for customers, prices just keep going up, up and up. Very ambiguous rules and a lot of people fight on how something works.

If you get a friend into it, they may become PISSED that they wasted so much time and money into "this hobby".

That being said, if you still have your AoBR use them. I would even so far as to go to use the beginner rules for Battle for Macragge. Start small really small maybe 200 points. This way not many rules should be used and should be a quick game as well, maybe an hour. If they are not interested then, see why and that's the end of that. If they like it, go for a bigger game say 500 points. Explain to them then, there is various point levels people can play at, small games medium games and huge games. Make sure they know the codices are very unbalanced to each other, some codices are weaker while others are more powerful. Tell them its not a cheap hobby and they have to put everything together themselves.

If that doesn't work, come and move to Ontario and then we can have some games then.

[greyseer]

They're artists. Are they storytellers? Personally, I'd tackle it from that angle. Treat it like a D&D game at first. Craft a small scenario with some interesting plot twists and turns, and run it like a DM would run any ol' tabletop RPG. If they're used to that style of play, then you piggy-back off those expectations.

Craft two equal forces so that you can hand your opponent a ready-made army. This is something that I try to do with all my games: have "foil" armies (two factions that are foils to each other, used primarily to teach new folk the game). In fact, maybe one day have a "painting party." Invite your artist friends over and have them help build / paint said foils. Have a bunch of pics available of good paint jobs, conversions, artwork, etc. Get them inspired about the lore, the look, and the feel of the setting.

As an artist myself (and writer, and game designer, and modeler), EVERY game I currently keep around as a hobby was a game whose setting, look, or feel appealed to me. It was never the mechanics or game balance. That stuff is secondary. Game balance is rarely ever perfect (even in Chess, white always goes first), so you focus on the thing that serves as a better anchor: the setting.

Above all else, though: be passionate about the hobby. Set aside your gripes and worries and focus on what you enjoy about the game. If you find yourself apologizing and hedging around things that irritate you, then you're not gonna attract anyone to any game. If, however, you're passionate and excited about a thing, that excitement can be contagious.

Think of it this way: if your first exposure to 40k was the plethora of internet negativity instead of the countless awesome paint jobs, conversions, and the like, would you care to be a part of it? Your friends likely wouldn't, either.

Don't be like that. Don't be like the internet.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using proboards

[Hellbreaker]

The best way to grab someone into anything is that they'll be in it with you. You both paint? Great, you can show each other off and use each other to bounce feedback and improve and have fun, sweet.
You both like telling stories? Awesome, creative story telling is easy to do with the "no bars, everything's possible" type universe a wargame is typically set in. Of course there is lore, but it's literally 'just there'.
You like strategy games? Awesome, why not be social while moving pieces around then.
You really like Yatzhee? Sweet, why not add lasers and dinosaurs?

[Inquisitor Stingray]

Greyseer has a good point. You really need to show confidence in what you're 'selling' if you want people ot buy into it. A lot of people, myself included have a rather strange love/hate relation to and with Games Workshop, something that for obvious reasons do not translate well to newcomers. It's one thing that this hobby may be niché and seem somewhat archaic to some people, but that the producers of the product are even more old-fashioned is something that causes disbelief and turns people off. And why shouldn't it? I'm not sure I would have wanted to invest nearly as much money in a hobby whose creators I have come to hold in very low regard.

When it comes to relaying and teaching the rules, and this seems like a trivial point but people nonetheless forget it, keep things simple. Skip rules and don't drown the person in unnecessary details about exceptions, special rules and what not. The good thing about a game like Magic is that you can buy two beginner decks who only have single special rule or two and the rest of the cards are plain 1/1, 2/2 creatures and so on. Not so with Warhammer where when reading the rulebook, it's impossible to tell when to stop reading and actually get started. As a Tyranid player I used to be very sloppy with vehicle rules because they didn't influence directly (which is obviously false). The point I'm making is that as you teach the rules, you get luxury of filtring and omitting whatever rules aren't necessary to know at this point.

[gigasnail]

generally all i've had to do is show them the stuff i've built and the artwork. i warn them up front how expensive and time consuming it is. haven't had an issue.

[Overread]

"Warhammer is REALLY expensive" is a kind of - well honestly its a red herring.

Sure its not dirt cheap, but compare it to most other hobbies and its pretty reasonable, heck its dirt cheap compared to some. The problem is a large segment of the community gets into warhammer when they are young, when it really is much more expensive than most other kids toys and that mindset never lets go (its not exactly helped by GW prices going up with inflation and such).

So just don't mention that part, if they like it they'll spend their money. If they say "Ohhh isn't that really expensive" counter it by pointing out the other expensive hobbies out there. Nothing silly, but many hobbies can easily soak a few hundred to a thousand pounds over time. And GW gives you that bonus that you can build it up slowly over time and still get assembly, conversion and painting out of the hobby before you've ever reached the table top.

If they are worried about time do steer them toward elite armies that use fewer models; rather than hoard armies.

[Yuno]

The expense thing being a red herring is really true. Unless you calculate only the getting in charge that is. Obviously a decent sized army (paint, glue, primer, models) + codex + core rules isn't cheap running anywhere from $500 - $2000 depending. If you compare that to things like Magic, Heroclix, Dungeons & Dragons, or any other extremely successful franchise then yes it does seem like a lot.

But Magic, Heroclix, and other games of that caliber are like developing a very expensive drug habit. (Seriously the only real comparison.) You don't want one deck or one set, you want to continue buying it as they release new and better cards to your greedy hand. Dungeons and Dragons is much the same. OF course you can be very successful with just the core rules, but those are gateways to wanting all the other books, and dice, and maps, and washable markers, and and and....

Sure, some people buy multiple armies, but even then. If you compared a ten year 40k player with a ten year magic player, you'd easily find that the Magic player spent more money even if they weren't attempting to be competitive. Better yet, most collectable card games or pen and paper roleplaying has little to no resale value. Sure, if you are a nifty collector who keeps complete sets and has all the rares or out of print material then maybe you can do alright on resale, but by and large those things are not investments.

In contrast to that, a decently painted 40k army does not tend to lose a whole lot of resale value. In fact, depending on level of paint-job, it is likely to gain. The stories of people paying off this or that by selling their armies when they "outgrew" the hobby are endless.

Further, you seem to mention that your friends and yourself are artists. Now maybe it is different where you are, but the last time I went in a craft store and looked at tubes of good paint, I wanted to go back to the GW rep I once tore into on the phone and apologize for telling him his paint was overpriced (please do not swear). Special paper, special pencils, special cases. Seriously, that isn't a major or a hobby that is what I'd call smart in the money sense. (It hurt my pun loving, English Major mind to not write cents there).

In other words, worry not about the money, it is not a poor money decision and even if it was, you all seem pretty delighted to make that. ^ ^

As for how to get people involved, I think there are a lot of good suggestions here, but I'd guess my suggestion to add on is "Why do they have to do the things you do?". I mean it is very nice to have friends involved in all the same hobbies you are, that love the same things you do, but that does tend to cut down on the ability for you all to grow. Sure, try your hand at getting them to wargame (more power to you) but maybe consider learning one of their quirky hobbies in return.

I might also suggest making it more of a group activity. People like to feel like they are in a community and that they aren't the only one making lots of mistakes. If it is just you and one other person who doesn't know, they are more likely to feel frustrated or to not have fun because you are all knowing and they are ignorant. Instead, maybe have several friends together for learning the game or playing that way it becomes more of a communal sucking at new skill event.

[gigasnail]

magic is crazy expensive. to say warhammer's not in comparison is to say 'yeah man this corvette is CHEAP, look how much this ferarri ran me.' it's true, but it's also kind of irrelevant. i'm an engineer with a six figure salary and yes, this hobby is expensive.

there are ways around that expense though. get new folks hooked playing killteams, which is pretty cheap to start up (and also is a more palatable chunk of time to build/assemble vs. even a 1k army).

[phayze]

Hey, I like to spend my spare time assembling and painting thousands of plastic dollies so I can fight my friend's dollies in his basement, get mad at him, and complain about it on the internet, all the while draining my funds of cash. wanna join me?

hah. my friends got into it from seeing the models on the shelf of our game store after a round of Pathfinder. they learned from store armies, I sat there bored out of my mind. Then I saw nids, and never looked back or really at another army. everyone has their niche in 40k or fantasy. find out what they like and shove it in their face.

[Overread]

As a group idea "growth" campaigns are popular. Everyone starts off with say 400 points or so of models and you play killteam. Then every so often (depending on the finances of the group as a whole) you increase the points cost. So that they are encouraged to buy more models and paint them up to battle with. And because they do it as a group they don't get into that "hey I got left behind" situation.

It's also good if you've already got an army because you just scale down to join them; rather than introducing them and then playing matches at 1K 2K points with others and leaving htem feeling they've got a mountain to climb before they can join in.

[Deleted]

Jun 1, 2014 2:24:23 GMT gigasnail said:

generally all i've had to do is show them the stuff i've built and the artwork. i warn them up front how expensive and time consuming it is. haven't had an issue.

This worked for me as well. We used a "feast table" at my close friend's house(4 couples living together), and the table was built to accommodate them all for game of thrones feasts. First one of them hopped on. Then after watching two. 3/4 of the males in the house now play. 

Granted I've helped here and there with a birthday gift model and stuff since as the most "developed" of their armies stands at like 1850 points if stretched out via upgrades.

Games workshop does very much know how to make models. Even the guys' girlfriends(not intended to gender typecast, but this is how it worked out in our group) are all over the idea of painting their boyfriends' models. 

[Yuno]

Jun 3, 2014 5:14:09 GMT gigasnail said:

magic is crazy expensive. to say warhammer's not in comparison is to say 'yeah man this corvette is CHEAP, look how much this ferarri ran me.' it's true, but it's also kind of irrelevant. i'm an engineer with a six figure salary and yes, this hobby is expensive.

there are ways around that expense though. get new folks hooked playing killteams, which is pretty cheap to start up (and also is a more palatable chunk of time to build/assemble vs. even a 1k army).

I gave multiple examples of Nerdyish hobbies. Magic is often on a list of things people consider getting into but like Warhammer feel is rather expensive. I deleted a paragraph about video gaming as a hobby (which is also comparable to wargaming in pervasiveness) and also more costly. My major point was that as hobbies go, few hobbies are as cheap and easy to resell as wargaming, specifically 40k is.

***

Also, I dunno how interested or capable you are of starting something else, but I did remember at my store (which is tragically now closed) to allow for newbies and help foster wargaming interest we started a Fantasy escalation league where everyone slowly built up to around 1,500 points. It was a cool way to put everyone back on the same playing field and have people of all levels involved in the hobby from the beginning again. That might make it fun for you to do with your friends. (I don't really know your friends obviously, but it is usually nice to not have all the pressure on yourself to know everything.)

[Xantige]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! I just want to clarify though, that I'm not looking at getting my friends into 40k specifically, just that that's what I have and know basically. I go to a huge game store that has a plethora of games and rules available to buy. I guess in a way this makes it a bit harder for me, because I can imagine it'd be overwhelming to show my friends such a vast sea of GW alternatives.


Yuno, I'm not looking to force my friends to be like me. We're all more than a bit awkward with no idea of how to interact with eachother outside of art and talking (my friends are worse for this than me). So I thought I'd introduce wargaming as a potential way to bond and have fun beyond... well... art and talking in a mall. My friends usually rush home where they then basically daydream of hanging out with friends, I feel that wargaming could give us another place to meet up and stay in touch, and keep my friends from vanishing until we see eachother at the start of classes. If any of them wants to get me into one of their hobbies, I'd gladly listen and try.

Unfortunately, showing off my models to friends is actually quite hard to do. While we are still meeting for spring classes, no one comes over to anyone else's house for a variety of reasons (messy, cramped apartment, on the edge of town, homework, etc) there's never really a time for me to show images or models without stalling my friends from rushing home to solitude and awkwardly presenting painted plastic figures to them. I've done this once with images of my painted Zoanthrope, and they loved it, and they were wowed that I was in this hobby, painting, on top of everything else I do, but they didn't seem to show any further interest, so I'm not sure if to take that as a "not interested" or pursue it further.

Now the hardest part is less the gaming, making up armies, or all that... but that first step. How do I ask friends if they want to get into this hobby? How do I explain it to them without rambling on? Should I just keep showing them a painted model now and again on my phone or facebook until maybe one day they ask about it? We don't really have conversations that lead to talking about 40k or wargaming. (It may also be worth mentioning that all my friends are women, which is a big reason for my thinking they won't be interested).