FMCs and Ongoing Reserve

[scrotatohead]

If an FMC leaves the board in Swoop mode and goes back into ongoing reserve can it return to the table top by way of deep striking?

[lordsqueak]

Does the FMC have the deep strike special rule? If so, I would say yes, if not, no.

[coredump]

No, it comes on from your board edge.

There seems to be a little ambiguity in this.

[lordsqueak]

Aug 14, 2013 17:17:10 GMT coredump said:

No, it comes on from your board edge.

There seems to be a little ambiguity in this.

If the model has the deep strike special rule it can come back on via deep strike again, but they took away the deep strike special rule from all the flyers, so the number of units that can do this are pretty rare.

It might be nobody, unless there is a special piece of wargear to supply the deep strike rule.

[coredump]

Except the Ongoing reserve rules state that you follow the "normal rules for reserves"; and as you state, Deep Strike is a "Special" rule.

Outflank clarifies that it cannot be used with Ongoing reserves.

[lordsqueak]

Aug 14, 2013 18:38:36 GMT coredump said:

Except the Ongoing reserve rules state that you follow the "normal rules for reserves"; and as you state, Deep Strike is a "Special" rule.

Outflank clarifies that it cannot be used with Ongoing reserves.

Normal rules for reserves includes models which can arrive via deep strike. You must only tell your opponent how the model will arrive when it goes into reserves.

It's like if a terminator squad arrives via deepstrike and mishaps into ongoing reserves, they can try and deepstrike again, they don't have to come on from the board edge.

[coredump]

On what rules are you basing your claim that the SPECIAL rule of deep striking is considered a 'normal' rule?

Just because it is a common special rule, does not make it normal.

[fragile]

Aug 14, 2013 18:38:36 GMT coredump said:

Except the Ongoing reserve rules state that you follow the "normal rules for reserves"; and as you state, Deep Strike is a "Special" rule.

Outflank clarifies that it cannot be used with Ongoing reserves.

Your overthinking "normal rules for reserves." A unit with DS in reserve may DS. Ongoing reserves follows the same rules as reserves other than not having to roll.

[coredump]

It follows the "normal" rules for reserves... does that include "special" rules?


This isn't the first time this concept has come up, the rules often mention following the 'normal' rules for something (movement, shooting, reserves, whatever), and almost never clarify what they consider to be 'normal'.

Unfortunately, these situations get FAQ'd in an inconsistant manner.

[lordsqueak]

It does specifically call out ongoing reserves in the rule for outflank, but it does not for deep strike.

The only restriction to deep strike is that it must be declared that the unit is deep striking when it is placed in reserve, and that once a unit is declared to be deep striking, that unit MUST deep strike.

[scrotatohead]

FMCs haven't lost the Deep Strike ability as they specifically have the Jump Monstrous Creatures special rules. The FAQ states that when FMCs enter play via Deep Strike they do so in Swoop mode. In reading the FMC entry, it specifically states Swooping FMCs can leave the board and go into ongoing reserve.

So, can an FMC that swoops off the board return via Deep Strike? It seems to me that an FMC should be treated like any other model with the Deep Strike special rule that goes into ongoing reserve. Terminators can go back into ongoing reserve as a result of a mishap. That does not mean they are required to enter from the table edge. It means they must follow the normla reserve rules, which specifically state that "models arriving via Deep Strike or Outflank deploy using their special rules". Given that FMCs can Deep Strike, provided the player declares they will be Deep Striking, I know of no prohibition on them being allowed to arrive from ongoing reserve via Deep Strike. Same for a brood of Raveners attempting to enter via Deep Strike. Just because they mishap off the table edge and back into reserve doesn't mean, cinematically speaking, that they have to then tunnel back behind friendly lines and walk onto the table. They'd stay in their tunnels and try to fulfill their mission.

[gigasnail]

the old 5th ed skimmers that are now fliers in 6th (like the storm raven) lost deep strike, not FMC.