Post by coredump on Jun 10, 2013 4:12:12 GMT
To be fair, placement got a lot easier when the Spore deployment became 6" instead of 2". I have not used Doom since that change. But evenso, I still assert you will only get 2 or fewer units in range more often than 3 or more units. And if a player *knows* you have Doom coming, and still doesn't put some effort into putting his expensive units spread apart a bit, he is playing the game wrong.
But again, my post was willing to grant all of that. Skip if that is likely or not. Lets assume you *do* get three terminator units within 6". You still only have less than a 3% chance of causing 2-3 deaths to each unit.
I once had 7 termagants shoot and kill 4 out of 5 terminators.... that doesn't make gaunts OP. Statistics happen....
Yes, but lets look at the two 'extremes' you are trying to compare.
Chance of having *no* effect (either causing no wounds, or all terminators making their saves): >43%
Chance of killing all 5 terminators: about 4%
See, killing all 5 *is* extreme; having nothing happen is not only *not* extreme.... it is the *most likely outcome*
Sure it is... and thank goodness. It has a hard time being worthwhile if all it can kill is tac marines.
But again, it has about a 10-12% chance of causing that many deaths; and if the terminators have a Ld10 character with them, it drops down to more like 6% chance.
No, no way is Cataclysm 'capable' of wiping out a terminator unit at S4; mathematically possible? sure.... but lets not get into far fetched dream results.
As for 'glancing to death' that vindicator: whether by glancing or Pen/destroy; it will take about 6 hits from a Krak missile, or 4.5 from a lascannon.
It only takes 3.6 to kill that Doom.
And against a Demolisher, it is even more lopsided.
But thats the point, your enemy *doesn't need* to roll 'extremely well' to skip off scott free. *you* have to roll 'extremely well' to do anything but minor damage.
And you don't have to completely miss with the blast... if you only suck a few deaths from Spirit leech, you are tossing a S6-7 blast... while handy, it isn't that deadly a weapon any longer, and it is likely to scatter at least some.
I am not saying Doom is a lousy unit, I am not even saying it is worse than a vindicator etc. But it is a 'raffle ticket' (or lottery), something you buy for the long shot big win. And people remember those big wins because they are cool. Just like I remember my 7 guants killing 4 terminators.
But the reality is, on average it will do about 2 wounds per unit within 6". That just isn't much.......[/quote]
But again, my post was willing to grant all of that. Skip if that is likely or not. Lets assume you *do* get three terminator units within 6". You still only have less than a 3% chance of causing 2-3 deaths to each unit.
I once had 7 termagants shoot and kill 4 out of 5 terminators.... that doesn't make gaunts OP. Statistics happen....
In reality yes you can have a game where every unit passes its LD test and you can have the other extreme where they take too many wounds and all the terrmies die (5 man units and yes extremely unlikely}
Yes, but lets look at the two 'extremes' you are trying to compare.
Chance of having *no* effect (either causing no wounds, or all terminators making their saves): >43%
Chance of killing all 5 terminators: about 4%
See, killing all 5 *is* extreme; having nothing happen is not only *not* extreme.... it is the *most likely outcome*
either way the fact remains it is more than capable of taking out 3-4 terrmies in this fashion and if memory serves they are 40Pt's per model so 3 and you've made your points back,
But again, it has about a 10-12% chance of causing that many deaths; and if the terminators have a Ld10 character with them, it drops down to more like 6% chance.
the blast itself starts at str4 and the doom is bs4 not too shabby, even without causing any wounds before hand it is more than capable of wiping out a termi unit or any other unit it chooses just like a vindicator and unlike a vindi it cant be shaken cant be glanced too death and gets a rather impressive 3+ invun.
No, no way is Cataclysm 'capable' of wiping out a terminator unit at S4; mathematically possible? sure.... but lets not get into far fetched dream results.
As for 'glancing to death' that vindicator: whether by glancing or Pen/destroy; it will take about 6 hits from a Krak missile, or 4.5 from a lascannon.
It only takes 3.6 to kill that Doom.
And against a Demolisher, it is even more lopsided.
and then your enemy rolls extremely well and you completely miss with a large blast then yes it will do nothing
But thats the point, your enemy *doesn't need* to roll 'extremely well' to skip off scott free. *you* have to roll 'extremely well' to do anything but minor damage.
And you don't have to completely miss with the blast... if you only suck a few deaths from Spirit leech, you are tossing a S6-7 blast... while handy, it isn't that deadly a weapon any longer, and it is likely to scatter at least some.
I am not saying Doom is a lousy unit, I am not even saying it is worse than a vindicator etc. But it is a 'raffle ticket' (or lottery), something you buy for the long shot big win. And people remember those big wins because they are cool. Just like I remember my 7 guants killing 4 terminators.
But the reality is, on average it will do about 2 wounds per unit within 6". That just isn't much.......[/quote]