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Post by jinxed on Apr 21, 2013 12:55:12 GMT
Hello!
My little gaming group is about to dive into Warhammer 40k alongside our Fantasy gaming and I'm having a little trouble deciding which army to play. I asked this question on a 40k forum but I got very, very different answers from the guys over there, which I guess can be expected since it varies between areas I suppose.
I've gotten it down to 4 different armies namely ;
Tyranids - Love the models, the fluff (the little I've read)
Tau - Like some of the models and the fact that they have a new book, so hopefully on par powerwise with the rest
Necrons - Who doesn't love an army of guys looking like spawns from Skynet ? =)
Eldar - Like some models, especially the guys with the wings!
I'd very much like an army that's a little easier on the learning curve compared to Tomb Kings of Fantasy and I'd like it if it wasn't considered the weakest one available either :>
Of these 4 my top pick are the Tyranids, been reading on here and the feeling I get is that they are a subpar choice and very difficult to learn to play.. It's the only reason I'm having any doubt to be honest, I'd have purchased a starter box already if not. My main opponents would most likely be Necrons/Space Wolves/Grey Knights, and since I live very close to the fella who'll be sporting Necrons they will be my #1 enemy.
So if anyone has some input it'd be much appriciated!
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Post by ranmafan on Apr 21, 2013 13:11:05 GMT
Here's something I wrote about Nids a while back to my friends: -=-=- Tyranids are very unforgiving of mistakes due to their squishiness. They require a lot of synergising and calculated risks to be effectively played. That said, although their shooting isn't fantastic, they have access to a bunch of effective anti-infantry and some fantastic psyker powers which synergise with many strategies an playstyles and can use both shooty or scratchy (with rending claws!) lists. You can go horde, Nidzilla, or highly elite. You can play flying circuses, ground pounders, deep-striking lurking menaces or combined arms. You can use almost all Psykers, no psykers or any mix. Without a WAAC list you can still win games with finely tuned lists and tactics. Their primary strengths are assault - no other army can field so many effective close-combat abilities (Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Rending Claws, Boneswords, Lashwhips, Scything Talons) or Monstrous Creatures for the points paid. Few armies can match the Nids' ability to throw away lives to give their other models a fighting chance. Properly mixed with psyker powers and buffs, even the lowly Termagant is a brutal threat to a Marine. Properly maintained, a Nid army is almost always Fearless. All our MCs are fearless by default. Shadow in the Warp is the 2nd best psyker defense that is always active by default on Synapse creatures. Our Hive Guards can deny 90% of the game's cover saves, our Ymgarls can appear and kick ass in the turn they arrive. Choke the skies with Gargoyles, carpet the ground with gaunts, then smash their lines with a Trygon and Hive Tyrant! And best of all - we have GENESTEALERS. Again - We are *very* squishy, but the Nids are all about mind over matter. If you don't mind (the casualty rates), it doesn't matter! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) -=-=- From a purely physical standpoint, Nids are a very demanding army - storage and real money costs are slightly prohibitive - you need to store close to 70+ models (average 6 MCs, 50+ gribblies, 20+ medium sized) for a regular army. I picked Nids because I liked the Alien Horde army. Go for what fits you best.
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Post by rpricew on Apr 21, 2013 13:19:47 GMT
What's the most important aspect to you in gaming? Is it winning? Power gaming? Modeling? Are you a technical player, or do you just like to run at your opponent screaming like an Ork?
When I picked Tyranids, I asked the GW employee... what are the horde armies of 40K? He said Tyranids and Orks. I asked what's the difference and he said Orks were more random and Tyranids were more finesse. I picked finesse and have enjoyed it every since. I've struggled with different iterations of the Nid book. I have however developed a reputation as a "Tough Opponent" in our area with my bugs. I have collected 12,000 points of Tyranids and have fielded many different types of lists. I love the models and how they look on the field. Check out my signature for some batreps.
A friend of mine, who mostly played Fantasy, started Tyranids a few months ago. We worked out a very straight forward list with average units and he is winning more than losing. However, he doesn't play in local tournament and most of his games are either story based (league games) or just normal pickup games with his friend.
Necrons are probably the most forgiving army at the moment, with a nice even power level. They have awesome models and one of the best flyers in the game. Several local players have won some local tournaments with the Necrons.
Eldar are one of the most fluffy armies, and are supposed to get a new book in a couple of months. There is a local player here that frequently wrecks people and scores high in tournaments with them. However, he has been playing them for 15 years. Forgeworld offers an amazing amount of models for the Eldar.
Tau, I play a Tau army with my Tyranids. They are the polar opposite of bugs and are a very finesse army too. Some great models, and they have a decent power level. However their power is on par with the other 6th edition books and probably slightly behind Grey Knights & Necrons.
Hope I was able to share some insight that helps. It's going to be your army, so figure out what excites you the most about playing and pick the army that best suits you. For me, it's a crawling horde of black death...
"There is a cancer eating at the Imperium. With each decade it advances deeper, leaving drained, dead worlds in its wake. This horror, this abomination, has thought and purpose which functions on an unimaginable, galactic scale and all we can do is try to stop the swarms of bio-engineered monsters"
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Post by Raven on Apr 21, 2013 13:32:44 GMT
Unfortunately, Tyranids don't have a great matchup against Grey Knights and Space Wolves (though they're far from an auto-loss), Necrons are a decent matchup, though Midnshackle Scarabs and Tesla weapons can be difficult to deal with depending on your list and theirs. There's definitely a learning curve to playing Nids, though not as much as an army like Dark Eldar or Eldar.
I would probably look at the playstyle of the different armies more than just the looks of the models (though it is important to have an army you like the look of). Tyranids are generally quite an aggressive and durable army focussing on a sustained assault, a close range army with cheap horde units backed up by monstrous creatures and some specialist units. Tau are a more defensive gunline army, relying on overwhelming amounts of mid to high strength firepower to cripple the opponent's army before they can get to them. Necrons are perhaps the most powerful and versatile of the current army books, while generally shooty, they have some very dangerous combat units, the best Necron armies I find have combat units with Wraiths, ranged units with Annihilation Barges, and generally 2-4 Night Scythes to give them fast scoring options and air superiority against most armies, a strong, balanced army. Eldar are getting an update in a couple of months if the rumours are reliable, but I doubt the basic idea behind them will change, they're primarily a mobile army with ranged support backed by psychic buffs and debuffs from their HQs, they have a lot of specialised units that excel at killing specific types of enemies (Fire Dragons, for example, will absolutely annihilate any Tank or Monstrous Creature) however, they're quite fragile, the difficulty in playing Eldar is making sure the enemy doesn't survive contact with the plan, rather than the other way around.
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Post by brianb9999 on Apr 21, 2013 13:37:34 GMT
You can certainly be competitive with tyranids, it's just that some of the units in our book are overpriced or hard to use effectively due to poor design. But don't let that sway you...I have had a lot of fun since rebuilding my nid army at the end of fifth edition, and I think they got a boost in sixth. They do take some practice to use effectively, yes, but you're right about the models. They are pretty awesome, and there's nothing like seeing your swarm deployed on the table at the beginning of the battle. Also, a lot of rumors have our new book coming out early next year, so you may want to wait on purchasing a bunch of models. That said, here are my two cents on your other choices:
Necrons: probably the 40k equivalent of tomb kings in terms of fluff and models (though I don't play fantasy). Extremely resilient, good mid-range shooting and flying units. They have faired very well in 6th.
Eldar: I think they have cool models/fluff, and they are rumored to be the next army redone (June, perhaps). One of the best armies when it comes to psychic powers (tyranids not far behind). They have some strong shooting as well, and they have a lot of specialized units (aspect warriors) to theme your army around. They are fairly fragile as a whole however.
Tau: The most recent release, as you have stated. A very strong shooting army, In a completely different way from Imperial Guard (thought of as the other main "shooty" army). Not good if they get assaulted, but they can bring the pain at long range, and they have lots of options for shooting fliers. I personally never really liked the models or the fluff, but to each his own.
Each of these armies will have their own learnin curve, and if you do decide Eldar or Nids, remember that they will be getting updates soon, so don go too hog-wild on the purchases (though its hard not to imagine needing termagants and tervigons)!
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Post by jhussey on Apr 21, 2013 19:34:27 GMT
If you're new to 40k, I would say either Tau or Necrons. They are in my opinion easier to learn and less frustrating. That being said I love the Tyranid army. I love the Fluff and the models so if that's more important than winning then definately go Tyranid.
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Post by retnab on Apr 21, 2013 20:19:04 GMT
I'd very much like an army that's a little easier on the learning curve compared to Tomb Kings of Fantasy and I'd like it if it wasn't considered the weakest one available either :> It can be a really brutal army to play and we currently have several enormous weaknesses that you will have to deal with (ie: melee, best shooting is AP4 excluding psychic powers, heavy price tags in-game and on-shelf, etc), but I've never had a more satisfying feeling while playing than seeing a Grey Knight player rage out that bugs were beating his "perfect army." So I'd say if you like a challenge and want to really hope that our new codex helps out, go for it. If you want something more forgiving, I'd move along.
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Post by infornography on Apr 22, 2013 5:43:34 GMT
Tyranids are my first love. They are a hard army to learn, I won't sugar coat that, but they are brutally effective once you learn their tricks. You WILL lose your first several games, some of them by a landslide. But once everything clicks into place, you will be a force to be reckoned with. You can shorten the learning curve by hanging around here. We have several highly advanced players who are always happy to break things down and simply to make it easier to understand.
If you go Tyranids it won't be easy, but it will be very rewarding, and we might have a new codex coming out later this year or early next that should help a lot.
If you are really worried about complexity and just want to be able to play at a lower skill level and be able to compete, I'd pick tau since you said your most common opponent will be Necron. The game is more fun when you play different factions. It might be a good idea to go Tau first and then if/when you decide to go for a second army, go Tyranid, but I do recommend giving the bugs a shot if you like the fluff, they really are quite rewarding once you get them figured out.
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Post by commandersasha on Apr 22, 2013 13:22:44 GMT
I have loved my Skaven-counts-as-Tyranid army, but since the advent of 6th edition, and the new Codecii having a significantly shifted emphasis on shooting vs assault, plus a lot of fliers, I am finding Tyranids impossible to win with, and usually crushing defeats against the armies and friends I was 50:50 with. I haven't rebuilt my 'Nids into the Tervigonspam list that is still competitive, but I fear that at the moment 'Nids have to in order to compete, so as a new player, unless you can cheerfully lose most games (I wish I was a better loser!), you might be better served starting with an army from a more recent, post-6th codex.
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Post by coredump on Apr 22, 2013 13:50:14 GMT
You don't need to spam Tervigons to win, but it is one of (if not the) best model in the dex; so for folks that refuse to use it, it sure will make the game harder. Just like any dex if someone refuses to use the best unit in that dex.
At Adepticon, Nids were the highest ranked army going into the final 16. (He lost to Kopach in the first round unfortunately...)
OP: If you are looking for the easiest learning curve, I would say Crons are the way to go. But to me they are a bit boring. Tau just got a new codex, it should be pretty high on the power curve, and will probably eat Crons lunch.
But hey, you are at a Nid board, so you are asking Nid players/lovers. I play Nids, and only Nids; I bought a Tau army once, but have never played it. In the current Meta, Nids are not the top codex, but they have several different builds that are just below the top lists, so you have a lot of variety and options available. We are here for advice and help to get you going so you can beat those other players.... so I say you should go Nids.
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Post by nurglitch on Apr 22, 2013 14:46:36 GMT
Thanks to the allies rule you don't have to limit yourself to collecting a single army. I would personally advise starting with an Imperial Guard army, as they're the army that most closely follows the basic rules of the game. That's because I think as a beginner you're better off learning the basics of the game rather than following any advice you get online: even good advice will be worthless if you lack the experience to make sense of it and judge accurately for yourself.
Basically, as Tony Kopach keeps demonstrating and people keep ignoring, players beat players and wins games, and armies are just a means to that end. Become a good player with Imperial Guard, and then invest in whatever army takes your fancy, if you're hung up on winning consistently. Otherwise, just take whatever army takes your fancy and hope you get lucky.
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