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Post by Squire on May 9, 2013 8:42:33 GMT
Something for warriors and shrikes- unit leaders. Kind of like a semi-prime who gets the option to take different weapons to the rest of the brood- i.e. a lashwhip and bonesword. A power fist equivalent would be fun, but then it would probably be better to leave that option out for risk of Tyranids becoming a bit too like other armies while we're shooting for the moon, impaler cannon as a 10 point purchased option for warrior broods I really like that idea. Also with the option to have a special weapon for every third warrior in a brood. A unit of 6 with two impaler cannons would come to 200 points, or 220 with deathspitters. Not too shabby It would probably make more sense just to fix the venom cannon though
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Post by chuckles on May 9, 2013 12:51:11 GMT
And how does making us beasts help? Models that move assault through cover strike at I 1. It doesn't matter if the terrains slows us down or not. Sure, more beasts would be nice, but they don't solve any of our problems. I agree that it doesn't fix the army by a long shot, but I do think the fact that the vast majority of our dedicated CC units are either no faster or only marginally faster than a standard infantry unit, and with no option to change that, hurts us quite a bit. There are a lot of benefits of being able to take a transport for a CC unit, and we do suffer to some extent by lacking that option. Hormagaunts are inferior to termagants because they aren't fast enough to offset the extra point cost. Making them beasts would go a long way to fixing that. Genestealers likewise need to be faster if they're not going to get a rule allowing them to assault the turn they arrive from reserve.
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Post by biomassbob on May 9, 2013 17:04:42 GMT
I really hope that we don't get any new models/units in the next dex unless they do something that is not available from any other units or should be done by other units. We have enough nid critters that do not function well because of poor stats/rules or don't have a good role. We also have enough units that do not have models plus units that need biomorphs to give nid players many new kits.
For example, the warrior needs to be adjusted so that it is more useful/cost effective as a mid-range synapse creature with options for different roles (shooting/CC) and in addition the kit could be redone to have 3 sets of rending claws, wings for shrikes and boneswords/whips.
We don't need another flyer - the hive tyrant needs a point decrease and a little re-working to make it 'the essence of the hive mind' again, while the harpy needs to be adjusted so that it can deal with enemy flyers as well as having anti-infantry options. The venom cannon needs to be changed back to 2-3 shots that can deal with vehicles/flyers.
As others mentioned above the carnifex needs a role again (and point/option adjustment).
Nids have enough critters - many that could add a variety of play styles and varying roles. If GW concentrated on fixing the mess they created (to try to get decent internal and external balance - not perfection - just an honest effort to make all units decent choices) I would be happy, but I fear they will only do a little of that, leave many problems, create new ones and add a few more new unneeded monsters that supplant an already existing one.
Gotta have a dream though.
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Post by gigasnail on May 9, 2013 17:31:51 GMT
tyranid prime, HQ ala chaos demons heralds. single HQ slot, take 1-3 primes.
ravenor and lictor primes, same option would be boss.
biomorphs (AG, TS) for ravenors. bring back fleshooks.
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Post by drakiskier on May 10, 2013 19:34:43 GMT
I had an idea for a slight adjustment to tervigons. i know tervs are already practically perfect as they are, needing neither buffs or nerfs, but my idea pertains to the spawn gaunts ability. when spawning gaunts, you can either spawn a new brood of 3d6 gaunts, or reinforce an existing brood by 3d6 gaunts. can only add to existing termagaunt squads that have not been upgraded in any way. i would love to just have a massive single brood of termagaunts that is practically without number... a massive tarpit that is fearless within synapse.
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Post by Inquisitor Stingray on May 10, 2013 23:11:38 GMT
A complete reboot of sorts. Points changes and slight rule alterations are what the FAQ's and addendums or maybe a WD update are for. I don't want to see our codex fixed or updated, but completely rewritten, regardless of how much I like or dislike it. In a brand new codex I'd expect to see.. well, new things. Synapse is an integral part of Tyranids, obviously, and as such should remain largely the same. However the introduction of 'Synapse Grids' or something similar that makes redundant synapse coverage more appealing would be interesting. Other than that, I'd like to see the reintroduction of the 4th Edition weapons, with Strength values dependent on the wielder.
Generally speaking I'd much rather have 15 viable, interesting choices than 30 shoddy, gimmicky or mono-buildy units, of which only a handful are useful.
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Post by gigasnail on May 10, 2013 23:21:08 GMT
i think complete reboot is more what we're going to be looking at. i HOPE a reboot is what we're looking at, for that matter. i'd like a few more viable options than biomancy, tervigons and dakka flyrants.
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Post by Hive Bahamut on May 10, 2013 23:53:06 GMT
(Previous entry for basics,) Hierodule becomes Our new big bug Carnifex brood can multi-pod in Variants of Prime like Daemon Heralds: Ravener, Shrike, Warrior, Lictor etc. Awesome Warlord Traits, I expect the assault bonus and or run one will be... All three stage HQ choices We have middle stage option already The first Beast MC.. Beast + MC = Giant Raveners.. Wait a sec.. GW to admit they stole the Fleshborer Hive on Flyrants from me Finally, not to look at a cookie cutter and every time think to myself "That kind of looks like the structure of a Tyranid Army... I wonder how many gants it'll make."
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Post by attemptedm on May 11, 2013 15:18:16 GMT
I'd like to see swarmy get an invuln outside of combat. Or maybe him and tyrants to have a 4+ look out but for any model in 6"
SITW to get changed, like when any psyker within 12" manifests a power roll a die, on a 4+ the hive mind hijacks his thoughts. Resolve the power as if had been manifested by the closest creature with SITW
Primes with wings and multiple primes per HQ slot, even 2
Tervigon to get nerfed. Not ridiculously or anything. Give it specific powers again, no access to biomancy.
Stealers to either get cheaper or get assault nades. Without nades they should be 8 ish ppm.
Warriors. t5 or 20 points base.
Hormagaunts. Beasts. That's all they need. Even with no initiative bonus they'll be alright. Maybe 5 ppm
Termagants 4 ppm
Pyrovore needs a redo. Unless you want to make the flame spurt cannon any two of S6, AP3, or torrent.
Harpy. Needs air to air options. Even give it the deverour options.
Doom. T5 and make the invuln 4+.
Carnifex. T8. If its a battle tank, it shouldn't be hurt by bolters and lasguns. Eff that. Or make it count all shooting attacks as AP-. Change living battering ram. Like if he assaults, he deals d6 how attacks and re-rolls misses in the first round.
Tfex. This thing needs help. Better BS at least.
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Post by Raven on May 11, 2013 19:13:33 GMT
I'd like to see swarmy get an invuln outside of combat. Or maybe him and tyrants to have a 4+ look out but for any model in 6" SITW to get changed, like when any psyker within 12" manifests a power roll a die, on a 4+ the hive mind hijacks his thoughts. Resolve the power as if had been manifested by the closest creature with SITW Way too overpowered, I'd rather not have such a cheasy army-wide special rule or my psyker using friends would never play me.Primes with wings and multiple primes per HQ slot, even 2 Add on the ability to deep strike in Spores and that would be spot onTervigon to get nerfed. Not ridiculously or anything. Give it specific powers again, no access to biomancy. Yeah, it should still be good (or nidzilla would be difficult in 6th) but not as powerful as it is now, either a points upgrade or psychic power nerf would be reasonable.Stealers to either get cheaper or get assault nades. Without nades they should be 8 ish ppm. I'd say 9 would be good, comparable with Daemonettes, it would be great to see Genestealers made viable for anything other than Broodlord escorts.Warriors. t5 or 20 points base. I wholeheartedly agree.Hormagaunts. Beasts. That's all they need. Even with no initiative bonus they'll be alright. Maybe 5 ppm. Termagants 4 ppm With other armies getting cheaper troops (CSM Cultists for instance), I'd say it's only fair for our T3 6+ sv. guys to be a bit cheaper too, being out-horded by CSM is just wrong.Pyrovore needs a redo. Unless you want to make the flame spurt cannon any two of S6, AP3, or torrent. mmm, Baleflamer Pyrovores.Harpy. Needs air to air options. Even give it the deverour options. Needs more than that to be competitively viable, either give it a points decrease or a Toughness increase.Doom. T5 and make the invuln 4+. The Doom is supposed to have this weakness to high strength weapons so it can be a distraction for our MCs, I'd keep the DoM just the way it is.Carnifex. T8. If its a battle tank, it shouldn't be hurt by bolters and lasguns. Eff that. Or make it count all shooting attacks as AP-. Change living battering ram. Like if he assaults, he deals d6 how attacks and re-rolls misses in the first round. I'd rather just give them Feel No Pain and a points reduction, maybe Armoured Shell as a purchasable upgrade, and any steps towards making them as customisable as it was in 4th would be steps in the right direction.Tfex. This thing needs help. Better BS at least. Needs a hefty points reduction and better BS just to make it decent
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Post by blindmage on May 11, 2013 19:32:12 GMT
What if SITW made let you re-roll failed Deny the Witch rolls, or gave you a +1 on them? Since it's the Shadow that messes with psykers and their ability to focus/stay sane.
What if they tier'd synapse, so things like the hive tyrant have all the abilities, but warriors, say, only have enough control to stop IB tests.
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Post by ksp on May 12, 2013 8:55:06 GMT
I think SITW is fine as is, if it is changed I would like to see a cumulative leadership modifier to enemy psykers while within SITW distance ( Ie -2 LD if within SITW range of a tyrant and brood of warriors) Yorimoto's army wide special rules are really good, and fearless units can still fail leadership based tests( see DoM's leech and psychic scream psychic power) as it wouldn't be a moral/pinning check
My two cents on what needs to be changed As we cannot take allies we get a doubled force organisation chart at 1500 points rather thank 2k Points decrease for the hive tyrant as all of the upgrades for it at the moment are relly expensive and some FoC manipulation would be nice New psychic monstrosity MC HQ, poor melee capabilities(outside of MC, less than the tervigon in melee output) no CC upgrades,base mastery level 2 but upgrade to 3 or 4 cheaper than it is for other races Primes are fine as they except they need access to wings and serpentine bodies and can pass on it's own ws & bs to raveners aswell, maybe multiple primes per slot but if we get a double FoC at lower points it wouldn't be needed Tervigon to largely stay as is, Can only use tervigon powers, Becomes a troop choice only if gant units are 20+ in broodsize and no mastery level upgrades. Lictors stopping enemy units from over watching(ala dirge casters for CSM) and being able to precision shot Deathleaper same as lictors but can assault when he turns up Pyrovores get a better armour save, and bigger brood sizes, points reduction Warriors either cheaper, synapse creature giving EW or a toughness boost with choice for armour save/invun save
Harpy, slight points reduction(10 pts) options for more weaponry(access to twin linked impaler cannon) and a 3+ armour save Aerial predator special rule: This model may choose to sky fire as if it were a flyer, when it does so it may also shoot upto four weapons. In addition whilst this model is in synapse range it automatically passes grounding tests. Old one eye fixed so he is an uber-fex and not a stupid redundancy More differenciation between trygons and trygon primes Tyrannofex, massive points reduction(atleast 50+ points) invulnerable save as standard, cheaper weapon upgrades and possibly some newer ones special rule, stress pheromone: whilst an enemy unit is in close combat with this model friendly tyranid units gain preferred enemy Carnifexes cheaper(almost 50% cost reduction) massive mutability in upgrades and options Termagants cheaper(3 points base with no gun) you MUST buy a gun, spinefists stay the same but are free, flesh borer 1point and devourers 3 points, maximum brood size increased(35) Hormagaunts point reduction down to 5pts with toxin sacs and adrenal glands dropping down to 1pt genestealers down to 10 pts broodlord down to 40 and may only use broodlord powers with no mastery upgrades. scy tals, tox sacs and adrenal glands 1 point upgrades Gargoyles down to 5 points with option for spinefists for free and devourers Ystealers 3 point drop and option for tox sacs and adrenal glands
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Post by yoritomo on May 13, 2013 2:23:38 GMT
Some things that I don't think people understand;
Tyranids are not psykers. They never have been and they never will be. This is because tyranids cannot access the warp. This is the reason that SitW prevents perils tests, because they are cutting psykers off from the warp (which makes it harder for psykers as well as safer).
Tyranid psychic powers are actually the manifestation of the hive mind. It turns out that the best way to represent this in game terms is to just make them behave like psykers. The difference in game terms was that unlike the other armies that had their powers assigned randomly or chosen from a list, tyranid bought their psychic powers just like wargear.
If GW continues this then tyranids will get their own specific psychic powers and will lose the ability to get the rulebook powers. This in and of itself is a nerf to the tervigon and flyrant because they loose access to the defensive upgrades that the depend on to keep them alive. Of course this assumes that GW will be constant (and they will because they've never retconed another army, right?)
Oh, and the harpy already has the skyfire special rule; he just doesn't have a weapon that can shoot at another flyer.
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Post by infornography on May 13, 2013 4:42:56 GMT
This is the reason that SitW prevents perils tests, because they are cutting psykers off from the warp (which makes it harder for psykers as well as safer). Umm, not sure where you are getting this from, SitW notably INCREASES the likelihood of perils. At least in the current codex. I do agree, the fluff and rules do not match at all for us in this regard. I suspect that we will be retconned to use the Warp more likely than lose psyker powers at this point. Especially in the current edition after they put so much effort into revamping the psyker system. That would still be less of a change to our fluff than the Necrons got.
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Post by t⊗theark on May 13, 2013 6:28:29 GMT
I actually want different types of synapse for different synapse creatures. I don't know why zoanthropes and Warriors are just as good conduits as primary synapse creatures like Tyranid Primes and Hive Tyrants. I'm thinking something like (for example)
Minor synapse creatures: 6", automatically passes instinctive behaviour. Major synapse creatures: 12", "....", confers stubborn. Synaptic nodal creatures: 18", confers fearless and eternal warrior.
Because there are stories where the dominatrix or hvetyrant die, the swarm takes a huge hit. When they die, every tyranid unit within any synapse range must take a leadership test and take a wounds with no saves allowed for every point they fail by. Further more, if major synapse creatures fail, they are reduced to minor synpase creatures for the turn that a synaptic model creature dies. If minor synapse creatures fail than they lose their rules as synapse creatures for the turn the synaptic nodal creature dies.
It's not too well thought out right now but something like this would be welcome by me.
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