Tinkerer looking to game...

[GestationPool]

There are probably similar threads out there, but I wanted direct advice and have a few specific questions that I'm not sure have been answered else were. So here goes...

I've been modeling/painting/collecting miniatures (including GW) for a few years now and think I might want to start playing the game. I'm mainly a fluff junkie but strategy board games and table top games have interested me in the past. So how should I go about learning.
I know just watching a game can be really helpful before you start playing, but how long does an average game last? I have the problem that, although I have some free time now and again, it usually comes in fairly short segments. I'm not looking for a massive apoc war, just a skirmish or small battle.I would also be interested as to what the average point value is in a given game.
I have played other table top games, but I don't have a local GW store and am pretty much clueless as far as how the mini's I have would act on the gaming table.
I know these are likely things that are best found out by just jumping in, but I'd like a little advice before hand.So, are there are any pointers or tips you would offer to the newbie? Any resources you think would be helpful for wrapping one's head around the game mechanics?
And I'm aware that some will give the advice of "just google it." Understand that I'm kind of stabbing in the dark here, I'm not really even sure what I'm looking for. So if you have any at all helpful insights for getting me from the workbench to the gaming table, please take a minute or so to help me out.

[lefarsi]

I think you should start a army based on the parasite, while its not going to do much on a chapter master, no hq short a hive tyrant is going to chalange that thing so is better than a warrior. Charge it at a unit of light costing infantry and hope you have enough ripper models. In the meantime, just be that guy and charge their hq with a MC or something like that. I personaly think, as an answer to your question, an avarage game is 30 min to 2:30 hr. An avarage game is 500- 1500 pts. No one uses the parasite due to lack of model and no easy conversion, but if you take it, due to the new rules for fliers and with a bodyguard of gargoyles you can get across the battlefeild unscathed. I hate how gargoyles are fast attack, but for 6 pts a bs1 to hit flier is a pain in the ass. So in my opinion, convert a parasite and put some green stuff wings on some rippers, and start stockpiling rippers, i run out of models EVERY SINGLE GAME.

[ranmafan]

thetyranidhive.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Tactics&action=display&thread=42040

Your first stop - Read the above post.

Well, you definitely can't go wrong with a Battleforce to start. You'll need a HQ choice as well, but you don't need one for skirmish missions (500 points or less). Just look for someone willing to play a battleforce game with you a few times.

Your first few games will take quite long as you puzzle out the rules, even 500 points will take 2 hours if you're just starting out.

The Nids battleforce has a lot of weapon options for the Termagants and Warriors - I recommend just using the recommended setup (as shown on the back of the box) - these tend to be the most reliable models. (You don't HAVE to glue the arms on straight away though, use blu-tack!)

After a few games, you should be able to finish 500 point games in under an hour. You can start thinking of 1000 point games then - start building an army. Tyranids have several strengths, and before you're done you will have tried them all.

1) Monstrous Creatures - Nids have more MC choices in their list than any other army in the game. MCs are big, tough, powerful, and scary. Downside is they normally come alone and can be taken down easily with heavy weapons without proper strategy.

2) Swarm - Nids can field incredibly high-model count armies that are surprisingly effective. The only problem is that they require Synapse to play properly and obviously die in droves.

3) Assault - Despite the nerfs to assault in 6th, Nids still have the greatest selection of cheap, effective and very deadly assault biomorphs. Rending Claws, Scything Talons, Boneswords, Lashwhips, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal glands... and they all stack!

4) Be prepared for casualties! You're the quintessential alien swarm - you can't save them all. So pick a few sacrificial units and throw them the enemy's way to buy your other units time!

[infornography]

As far as how long a typical game takes, depends on what armies are getting played, what the players are like, and what point values are getting played.

Around my way most games are 1500 to 2000 points with 1850 being most common. I know that some people generally play several short matches with 500 to 1000 point armies rather than the longer more complicated higher point value ones. Ask around at the various clubs in your area and stick around a bit to see what the players are like. It sounds like you would enjoy a more casual playstyle than hardcore competitive so try to find a shop that matches that if possible.

If you find you do prefer more competitive matches then try to find a group that also wants that rather than trying to play competitively against people who are mostly in it for the fluff and modeling, but I suspect that isn't what you are shooting for.

[Space is pretty big]

Blunder.

Seriously, don't try to min max right out the gate, try blundering blindly through some games; it's a fantastic way to learn. See, it ingrains in you all the weaknesses of a unit, and so when you do go to try and improve them, you can easily seek out ways of fixing known issues, instead of having to research all the weaknesses first, before learning their solutions.

It also gives you a sense of the stuff you can't learn online, like how to roll dice. I'm serious, as a nid player you're going to roll a lot of dice, and it's kinda not kewl if you end up knocking over half the models on the board.

Blundering into games is a great way of learning all those startup mistakes, and gives you sorta the shared sense of how to play.

THEN do you go oneline, learn all the terminology, and all the min maxed playstyles.


As for time frames?

500 points: 30 minutes - 1.5 hours, 4 foot by 4 foot table

1000 points: 1 - 2 hours, 4x4 foot table

1500 points: 2.5 - 3.5 hours, 4x6 foot table

1750/1850: 3+ hours, 4x6

Those time frames will start to shrink once you get better at playing, and you can start 2000 point games when you feel comfortable.

[Jabberwocky]

Honestly if you want skirmishes, 40k might not be for you. The game really doesn't balance well.

You might look into Kill Team which is kind of a 40k spin off rules set, or even look into 'warmahordes'.


If you are going with 40k, you'll find a less hordey army plays quicker. Genestealers, warriors, MCs, etc.

I'd have to agree with that Space said above too.

[Space is pretty big]

Mar 14, 2013 6:52:17 GMT Jabberwocky said:

Honestly if you want skirmishes, 40k might not be for you. The game really doesn't balance well.

You might look into Kill Team which is kind of a 40k spin off rules set, or even look into 'warmahordes'.


If you are going with 40k, you'll find a less hordey army plays quicker. Genestealers, warriors, MCs, etc.

I'd have to agree with that Space said above too.

Well, if you want to play skirmishes, then Xenos armies are not for you.

You can however have small games with the Smurfs and their rainbow coalition of grumpy soup cans. It's Xenos that relies on synergy much more to function.

[0800hell]

All of the above except the parasite isnt a MC and is still (please do not swear) unless you run an all ripper list like blindmage .

For starters i would get some genestealers(they are iconic and fluffy nid models and well they average in the edition will get better in next codex) and convert a broodlord for them.
Then get a battle force, use one of the ripper bases to convert ur broodlord. Also with the spare warrior bits you could have a go at making a zoanathrope ot doom of malantai.
You will need to aquire/build a tyranid prime if you dont feel like a hive tyrant atm but both are great options.
Oh duh (*face palm) get a tyranids codex if you havent already it will tell you all about the fluff and stuff and also the stats of ur models.

A basic 500 list you could start with
Tyranid prime:
95 points lash whip and bonesword
Troops
16 termagaunts 90 points
16 hormagaunts 106 points
7 genestealers with broodlord 158 points
3 warriors with whatever you feel like (they are VERY customisable)

[0800hell]

Mar 14, 2013 0:45:37 GMT lefarsi said:

I think you should start a army based on the parasite, while its not going to do much on a chapter master, no hq short a hive tyrant is going to chalange that thing so is better than a warrior. Charge it at a unit of light costing infantry and hope you have enough ripper models. In the meantime, just be that guy and charge their hq with a MC or something like that. I personaly think, as an answer to your question, an avarage game is 30 min to 2:30 hr. An avarage game is 500- 1500 pts. No one uses the parasite due to lack of model and no easy conversion, but if you take it, due to the new rules for fliers and with a bodyguard of gargoyles you can get across the battlefeild unscathed. I hate how gargoyles are fast attack, but for 6 pts a bs1 to hit flier is a pain in the ass. So in my opinion, convert a parasite and put some green stuff wings on some rippers, and start stockpiling rippers, i run out of models EVERY SINGLE GAME.

Bro you need to check your codex neither gargoyles OR the parasite of mortrex are flying monstourous creatures so are hit normally.

[GestationPool]

Thanks for the advice guys, now I just need to find some spare time and get to blundering...

-GP

[edjammies]

The way I learned 40k was to just go in blind with just a battleforce, an HQ, and a Heavy Support. I wouldn't worry about trying to power it up right from the start. Just go in with what you got, play a couple games JUST so you can atleast get the basic rules down, and then go over to the Tactics section of this forum to read up on what you can be facing and learn from our mistakes so you don't have to make them yourself .
After you're able to visualize how the game plays out rule-wise, then you can better digest all the info from the Tactics section to really apply it to your next games.

As a tyranid player, if you're going to play a 1000pts or less, set aside atleast 2 hours. 1750-2000pts, and you can expect up to a 4 hour game, but usually 3 hours if you're mainly going MCs.

[coredump]

You may want to check this out

www.games-workshop.com/gws/storelocator/search.jsp


You can look up GW stores, independent stores, and gaming clubs. (At least the ones that have registered with GW) Also, if you are willing to give out your general location, folks around here may be able to direct you somewhere.

Pick up games (IME) rarely go below 750pts, and in the US are more likely in the 1500-2000 range. Folks are usually willing to adjust, however, especially if you just tell them you are just starting out.

Even if you are an anal retentive rules-reader (like me), it is probably better to play a couple of games with someone to get a feel for how the game plays. Then reading the rules will make more sense.
Even if you are a hate-to-read-rules type, you really need to read the rules for yourself at some point. Lots of people (even 'knowledgable' people) get plenty of rules wrong.

As for you, I would try and watch/play some games first; even if not with Nids. Just to get a feel for the game. Then pick up a codex and see what units appeal to you. Then you can make up a small list (500-1000 pts) and post it here. We can help you spot any glaring weaknesses.
Then you can start getting models and putting them together.

If you want, you can also try Youtube and something like "40K basics" or" 40K how to play". But remember, any one can make a video and claim they know the rules/tactics, so I can't vouch for the accuracy. But if you watch several of them, you should get a pretty reliavle over view. (Stay away from Beasts of War...)

[Davor]

Mar 14, 2013 0:32:16 GMT GestationPool said:

There are probably similar threads out there, but I wanted direct advice and have a few specific questions that I'm not sure have been answered else were. So here goes...

Welcome to The Hive. Always good to have something like this suited to your needs specifically.

I've been modeling/painting/collecting miniatures (including GW) for a few years now and think I might want to start playing the game. I'm mainly a fluff junkie but strategy board games and table top games have interested me in the past. So how should I go about learning.
I know just watching a game can be really helpful before you start playing, but how long does an average game last? I have the problem that, although I have some free time now and again, it usually comes in fairly short segments. I'm not looking for a massive apoc war, just a skirmish or small battle.I would also be interested as to what the average point value is in a given game.
I have played other table top games, but I don't have a local GW store and am pretty much clueless as far as how the mini's I have would act on the gaming table.
I know these are likely things that are best found out by just jumping in, but I'd like a little advice before hand.So, are there are any pointers or tips you would offer to the newbie?

Well since you have modeled and played other games you rather have the basic idea how to play. If you can't watch a live game play out, then I guess the next thing you can do, is watch You Tube. I am shure there is games on there being played. Could be boring to watch, but at least it's the next best thing to watch an actual game if not watching it live.

Any resources you think would be helpful for wrapping one's head around the game mechanics?

Well here and other forums have great advice on how to play. I find this forum, one of the best out there for 40K and epically for Tyranids.
So if you have any questions, just ask us. In most cases you will have your answer by the end of the day or within hours sometimes minutes, but usually hours or the next day.

Remember here, this is my opinion. While I like the game a lot, I find it a bit boring. Why? It's you move, you shoot, you assault. I just stand there picking my nose some times. Kidding there lol. Then it's I move, I shoot, I assault. I find a lot of people a bit rude. While it's your turn, they ignore you, answer their phone, talk to other people and it stops becoming a game of fun. I guess playing a horde army this is bound to happen. In other words, the game does get boring a bit, so watch out for that.

And I'm aware that some will give the advice of "just google it." Understand that I'm kind of stabbing in the dark here, I'm not really even sure what I'm looking for. So if you have any at all helpful insights for getting me from the workbench to the gaming table, please take a minute or so to help me out.

Again don't forget to ask any question. Just don't ask for out right rules or stats. We cant do that. What we can do is when you ask for a rule, we can say how it works and it's on page so and so, in the BRB (Big Rule Book) or in the Tyranid codex.

Also I think you asked about time and points. The game can be about 2 hours with 1500 points, closer to 3 hours for 2000 point games. Depending what side of the pond you live on, in North America it seems 2000 point games are common, and in Europe it's 1500 points.

A lot of people also play 500, 1000, 1250 1500, 1750 point games as well.

Hope this helps.