Nothing works! Even when I win!

[commandersasha]

I am finding that I still can't get my head around 6th: either that, or that I simply don't like it. The weird thing is, I still win sometimes!

My biggest gripe is that nothing that I try tactically ever works: my Tyrant charges his Black Lord, but a Sergeant steps in to challenge. My Ymgarls assault, and achieve nothing against saves and FNP.
Fliers whizz around dropping templates on me, and my sole counter (DakkaFlyrant) can't do anything, but a lucky shot from a spore does.

It seems to me that 40K is just getting TOO random: the new power level of the 6th Codices (which seem to be well balanced against each other), leaves everything else standing. The chance of winning or losing now seems so much more dependent on a few lucky rolls on missions, traits or power tables.

I love the company of my gaming buddies, I'm just not sure I actually like 40K anymore. Is it just middle-age mistrust of change, an under-performing codex in a changed rules meta (I REFUSE to go Tervspam), or has the game I got into a few years ago been replaced by a luck-based board game to sell overpriced model aircraft.

I miss last year's games.

[commandersasha]

Today I almost tabled my Nurgle CSM buddy, but I don't think ANY of my strategies worked: every charge whiffed, shooting was pointless.
I won by dull attrition, and it doesn't leave me feeling proud of myself.

[barenone]

Games Workshop is just digging into a common gaming rut. They keep adding but not taking away enough. The game is getting over complicated and changes to quick to keep up. It costs to much money to buy a new army whenever something new comes out so your generally stuck with a codex tthat got left behind. It is like fashion eventually your codex will be cool again. Until then your the odd one out.

[Jabberwocky]

You can change things up without going Terv spam. Like me, you run a counts as army so have pretty much free reign to try out other units as long as you have models of appropriate size.

Why not try out some Tfex instead of Terv? Lictors, Mawlocs?

Whilst the game does have more chance in it, I find it lets the battle go back and forth more, making it more exciting.

Often in 5th the outcome could be seen turn 1 with such bland missions/maps and obviously hard armies to face, with no psychic powers to counter certain gunlines.

[virtualsniper]

What's funny is that with 6th edition, the tyranids codex got a boost. And the change in the meta (less mech spam) is also a boost to tyranids.

You cannot use the same tactics in 6th as in 5th, you need to adapt.

If your strategies are not working, change them.

You should know how to determine if your Ymgarls have a chance to win an assault. Doesn't mean they will, you might get unlucky. If so, don't discard this strategy, try it again. But if you get squash even by rolling average, then you should rethink who you want to charge with them.

Challenge is a part of 6th now, you must keep that in mind and prepare for it. If you blindly charge a squad thinking you will wipe them, think again. Challenge is actually a boost to tyranids. You get to kill the sergeant in your turn, and wipe the rest in their phase. Meaning you don't get shoot to pieces.

As for flyer, it is a little problem for us, but you can mitigate it with a lot of tactics (covering landing spot, dakkafex, dakka tyrant, Psychic powers, etc....)

As for randomness, you need to have redundancies. Always plan for the worst.

Anyway, do not get discourage, but don't hope to have the same result in 6th as in 5th with the same tactics. And lucky shot were also a part of 5th edition.

[barenone]

The biggest prob I see is the nerf to cover save and fleet, If not for that then all would be well with the world.

[virtualsniper]

Cover save is smaller, but it is easier to get, especially for MC. So it is not that bad. Fleet I not that bad too, as you can reroll one dice to charge. So you end up pretty close to the same distance.

The real hurt is overwatch.

[GuardDog78]

^^^ See...it's funny. I originally thought overwatch would be terrible...but it never seems that bad. Wall of Death on the other hand...that's a mother f......

[barenone]

ya true overwatch is hell, especially against an IG troop gun wall, Hey guys now we get to rapid fire our 1.5 million lasguns, we hit on 6s but thats ok we hit on those anyway.....

[nurglitch]

The 6th edition isn't really any more random: it's not like you'll suddenly start rolling 7s. The trick is to plot out the parameters (2" and 12" for charging, for example), and weigh the odds of any particular outcome within those parameters against the value of the outcome. It's about planning for contingencies rather than plotting exact move-and-counter-move.

I mean, take Overwatch, for example. Tyranids are uniquely positioned to have expendable units to suck up overwatch - which is cool as we can finally exhaust enemy munitions by throwing waves of Termagants and whatnot at our opponents' units. Charge with the unit furthest away, the least likely to make their charge, and you can make that uncertainty work for you by either wasting your opponent's overwatch, or locking up the unit.

Alternately, there are constants that you can exploit: zooming flyers can finish their move over terrain, but not over units. A 30-strong unit of Termagants can have a gigantic footprint, and can prevent a zooming flyer from doing anything useful beyond flying off the board or crashing.

Whatever happens, at least you'll expect it and be prepared for it.

[Space is pretty big]

For a game the size of GW you would need to invest into a mathematician to properly balance the components.

GW doesn't like to invest, it simply likes to double down on short term gains.

GW wants to be the apple of gaming companies, which is silly as these games are always always going to be a niche market.

Still, as absurd as their current system sounds, it works, because they have no real competition.

Warmahoards is just a different game, with a different community, and no games stores to match.

GW Monopolized a brand, and now you're seeing how unpleasant a monopoly can be.

[biomassbob]

OP, I feel similar in some ways (I don't play tervigons at all - can't stand them). The game obviously has always had lots of random (at least since 4th when I started) with the amount of dice rolling but it seems to me that many more things are random that don't need to be. Rather than fix up problems with dexes with a decent errata GW adds random warlord traits and random psychic powers , etc and added Allies (which might be fluffy in some ways) but just seems to create more of a mess (and less need for GW to fix/balance the older dexes since most armies can just take allies to fill gaps). Then the whole mess of flyers and skyfire/interceptor and how badly GW has handled this.

I agree with many of the comments above. 5th edition had problems as did our dex when released (and still does). And 6th edition did help nids in certain ways with removal of no retreat wounds for example. But 6th also created problems (or didn't fix problems) for certain units/play-styles, such as the changes that hurt CC (such things as can;t charge from outflank or first turn, overwatch, lack of run and assault especially for dedicated CC units, and random charge distance - some of this is fine - it is these types of things all together that nerfed CC units a bit). Units like tervigons are even more useful/necessary in many builds, as well as other units/biomorphs I don't care to use much (the over used devourers, hive guard, etc). The increased focus on shooting (and 5th had lots of shooty focus already) is unfortunate IMO. And there are vehicle heavy armies in my area as well as flyer heavy, especially with FW being used now - of course every area has its own meta issues.

That said with 6th edition, 40k in my area is stronger than ever. Maybe its just me and I have grown tired of the game (I'm certainly weary of GW and their business shenanigans). I often don't find the game that much fun whether I win or lose. I am intending on taking a break from 40k for a while (tyranids are already on the shelf - mainly playing vanilla space marines for a while as I do not care for the current nid dex and how it functions in 6th - disliked it in 5th as well but tried to make it work and enjoyable). Then in 6 months to a year, maybe longer, see if any desire has returned to play this game, and to see what changes have occurred (will GW continue to release dexes quickly since we've had 3 in about 6 months when some years we got 2 or 3).

[daboss]

Mar 5, 2013 16:42:35 GMT commandersasha said:

Today I almost tabled my Nurgle CSM buddy, but I don't think ANY of my strategies worked: every charge whiffed, shooting was pointless.
I won by dull attrition, and it doesn't leave me feeling proud of myself.

Yeah, I have noticed that pretty much everything dies in sixth. Either one comes out relatively unharmed, or they both are severely crippled

[infornography]

We are down to a very small selection of strategies that have any degree of reliability. You don't HAVE to use tervigons (I am not going to call using 2 spamming) but they do make life MUCH easier as they alleviate the problem of remembering to keep troops around to claim objectives. You will have plenty. Also they are almost as effective in melee as a Carnifex and cheaper, more durable, smarter, and with lots of bells and whistles.

I find heavy reserve lists still work with a fair degree of reliability.

Tell us what your current list and strategy is and we might be able to help fine tune it.

[0800hell]

I must say i agree with the OP but whats bad for me is playing the same people over and over again but our club now has some new players so that should change. Also im going to be entering both a tourny and a campaign soon so we will see...................