Cover question (moved)

[tauranidknight]

Jul 2, 2012 2:10:09 GMT bigpig said:

5) If LoS to the target model from any model in the firing unit passes through a third unit (friend or foe) the target model receives a 5+ cover save. This overrides the 25% rule. This applies even if LoS passes through gaps between models in the third unit. ( Pg 18 Intervening Models ). Yes, this means a bubblewrap of termagaunts can provide a 5+ to a tervigon or trygon!

Hey there,

we had our first game yesterday and the following situation about Cover Saves and Focus Fire popped up (also see attached picture):



The 11 blue Warriors on the left want to shoot the 4 red Nids on the right. The black Immortals are more or less in between and obscure a clear line to the Nids.

From what I was able to understand, that means that the Nids on the right will get a 5++ Cover save because at least ONE of the blue Warriors has to draw a line through an intervening troop (their own black Immortals).

The question now is about Focus Fire:
1) Is Focus Fire possible in this situation or does the Cover Save through intervening models ignores the Focus Fire here
2) If Focus Fire is possible, which red Nid would be able to receive a Cover Save and which wouldn't - and also: why

This is bugging me the whole night and half a day now Please help!

[infornography]

Your attachment did not work but based on your description it sounds like yes, the warriors would get a cover save due to the intervening unit even though they are on the same side. Would need to see the picture to be sure.

Focus fire should always be possible if you have clear line of sight to at least one enemy model.

[tauranidknight]

Feb 20, 2013 10:55:17 GMT infornography said:

Your attachment did not work but based on your description it sounds like yes, the warriors would get a cover save due to the intervening unit even though they are on the same side. Would need to see the picture to be sure.

Focus fire should always be possible if you have clear line of sight to at least one enemy model.

Hi there,

the attachment should now be visible. Thank you for your quick reply.

What part of the red Nid unit would receive the cover save or rather - which parts would the blue Warriors be able to Focus Fire?

[infornography]

Well now that I can see the attachment, in this case not a single one of the red ones is out of cover from the blue unit. All of them have cover from at least one member of the blue unit and therefore would get cover saves.

Similarly, since there is no clear line of sight (from the entirety of the firing unit) to any one member of the red unit you cannot focus fire as there is no difference in cover save to make use of.

I hope this helps.

[rbacus]

Quick question based on your picture. It says that you don't have to shoot with all of the models in a unit (p13). If you only elected to shoot with the bottom six warriors, could you completely deny the tyranid unit a cover save? Not really usefull in that situation, but if you had one guy giving the entire target unit a cover save, it would be better to just not let him shoot.

[infornography]

Hmm, the rules for cover are really badly worded, or rather not specific enough. I'm not sure if having them not fire removes the cover save from the whole unit... That is a good question though. I think you get the cover save by determining line of sight from the whole enemy unit though, not from just the firing models. Doesn't make much sense, but I'm pretty sure that is how it works. The reason you are not required to fire that it gives is if you have one shot only weapons and such, not to remove the target's cover save....

I just wish the wording were more precise.

[rbacus]

I was in the middle of typing a long post about how this is so unclear. Then i got to reading, and its actually very clear.

"If, when you allocate a wound, the models body is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one FIRER, wounds allocated to that model receive a cover save." (pg 18, determining cover saves)

You are allowed to elect to not have a model fire (pg 13, Which models can fire), that model is no longer a firer, therefore they are not used for determining cover saves.(pg 18, determining cover saves)

[nurglitch]

Clarity tends to be relative to the observer.

[Jabberwocky]

Since cover saves will only cut down casualties by around half at most, it's probably just best to have the whole unit fire anyway, unless it is just 1 or 2 models granting the cover.

This came up in a game of my DE vs Necrons and we couldn't decide so just fired everything and took saves.

[coredump]

As mentioned, cover saves are determined by the models actually firing. (OT: I just noticed that they changed this in 6E for vehicle shooting....)

If only the bottom 6 diamonds shoot, the arrows get no cover save.

If you shoot with only the bottom 8 diamonds, then there is 1 arrow that is not in cover at all. So the bottom 8 could Focus Fire at that single arrow. The arrow would not get a cover save, but it would also be the only one they could kill. It is unlikely that this would be a good idea...

The arrows, however, may benefit from focus fire, since they could hit the 6 diamonds that don't get a cover save.


Also remember, that cover saves are given on a model by model basis, so FF only makes sense if the models not in cover are further back.

[barenone]

Do the cover saves have a cumulative effect? IE if you have cover from a 3rd unit (5+) and cover from area terrain (5+) would that end up being a 4+

[voncrown]

Feb 22, 2013 19:09:09 GMT barenone said:

Do the cover saves have a cumulative effect? IE if you have cover from a 3rd unit (5+) and cover from area terrain (5+) would that end up being a 4+

No, you use the best cover save available.

[barenone]

Okay thank you

[coredump]

The best save available. you may have a choice between armor/invuln/cover..... pick the one best.