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Post by zephoid on Feb 19, 2013 1:40:02 GMT
Well, it only took me about a year but i finally got around to fixing up the Tyranid codex i made. Now its much more readable and largely updated to 6th. I would appreciate it if people could look at it, read around, comment on unit balance and possible mistakes, and give me a general overview of what they think of the codex. You will notice a lot of units are missing, but many of them have been folded into other units. Many biomorphs have been updated and are at the last 2 pages of the codex. The rest are in the Tyranid codex. www.mediafire.com/view/?lei626dkwd5zxvt |
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Post by nurglitch on Feb 19, 2013 19:00:04 GMT
Full of errors (unit size, etc), bad formatting, and lacks a TOC, index, or any kind of layout (headers, footers, proper sectioning, etc). It's a nice first draft.
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Post by zephoid on Feb 19, 2013 20:39:48 GMT
Actually, a lot of those problems were due to the previewer on mediafire. Didnt even realize it had a previewer so i didnt account for it. When logged in it just showed a file to download. The unit sizes were displaying as 13 instead of 1-3, the formatting on later pages was all off, and the headers didnt seem to align correctly. Download the file and it fixes the problem
I can do an index easily, but these stats are still subject to change. Id rather compile the index once i got a bit of feedback.
*Did note one error. Hive guard were listed as 1- not the intended 1-3.
Re-uploaded a new version with headers for each page instead of just the sections. This should hopefully make it easier to tell the section when in the previewer.
If you do find any other errors, please tell me. Id like to get this fixed up, find a codex-looking background, and put it in PDF format. However, changing it in word is much easier than PDF.
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Post by Davor on Feb 20, 2013 1:00:24 GMT
Genestealers are WAY to expensive. Why? Because I compare them to a standard Space Marine. A SM can have as many or more A than a Genestealer.PLUS it also has grenades, ATSKNF, and can shoot wich the GS can't do. So I with current rules of assaulting, GS should be 10 points, maybe 8 or 9. Also I don't like the idea of a Brood Lord making them troops. Why? Because it has the SM feelish to them. As the saying goes, if you want to be like SM, play SM. Tyranids are SUPPOSE to be different. So make them different. I say keep the points the same, Or an increase but give the GS the ability to attack like how the current Lictors have. Why because they come out of the blue on a Space Hulk and attack like crazy. If that is too much I can understand, maybe not fitting for a GS but then they are over costed and Should be cheaper. I don't like the idea of the Lictor can decide to go back into reserve if it mishaps during DS. I believe sometimes, the enemy should be able to kill the Lictor out right. It happens in the fluff sometimes, (or I am just imagining things again.) Yes it doesn't happen often, but it could be thought of as the Gaurds Men got the lucky shot and killed the Lictor before it pounched. Just my quick ideas, so far I like and can't wait to see the improvements.  |
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Post by zephoid on Feb 20, 2013 7:16:18 GMT
I actually left the genestealer pretty much alone. In hind sight, that probably needs to be changed. I6 WS6 and rending to start does put them over marines, but overwatch does cause problems. With frag spines and 4+ armor as options they have ways to survive, but knocking a point or two off them for the necessity to upgrade would be in order. Also, they have the dormant upgrade from the codex, meaning they can essentially be troop ymargls. They are also the main target for the new (actually 4th ed) catylist.
Broolord makes them troops because thats incredibly fluffy. Broodlords lead genestealer infestations and cults. Hives normally dont produce genestealers in quantity after the invasion starts so they are more elite troops. It may be a SM vibe, but its largely because of how that mechanic is supposed to be taken. Taking something as troops means its your primary unit for that type of army, aka a genestealer infestation/early war. Only the genestealers are that way and they have 2 HQ options to represent escalating infestations. Its either have this or make them always troops, which seems odd to place them with gaunts.
Lictor's mechanic is meant to simulate the lictor trying to show up and assault. If it scatters away, they saw it before it could get close. If it scatters on to them, the lictor decided now was not the right time to attack. I cant think of any other way. Having it misshap and die seems silly, as is misplaced. Do you have any suggestions on how to change it?
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Post by benseek24 on Feb 20, 2013 10:11:10 GMT
Good to see endless swarm back!!!
And red terror have a statline
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Post by ZergLord on Feb 20, 2013 12:11:11 GMT
People invest so much time in their fan codex fixes and yet half of the problems can be solved simply by modifying point costs.
I've taken a quick look at this, and my highlights so far are:
-Carnifexes with Wings; dream on, it's never going to happen in the game and in the fluff.
-atrocious psychic powers: Ld check based powers and 6+ Inv. Save, are you kidding me?!
-am I reading this correctly... units of 530 Gaunts? This must be a typo.
-Tyrant gains BS4 and doesn't gain an Inv. Save. Congrats, you've buffed shooty Tyrant build and CC oriented Tyrant is still trash.
Also, why did you make this codex?
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Post by benseek24 on Feb 20, 2013 13:34:32 GMT
-am I reading this correctly... units of 530 Gaunts? This must be a typo 5-30 not 530 and further up In The posts he does say you have too download the dex to iron out the typos in preview mode. |
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Post by chuckles on Feb 20, 2013 14:12:58 GMT
[quote author=zerglord board=general thread=42478 post=721342
Also, why did you make this codex?[/quote]
Because he felt like it? I mean I'm just guessing here. I don't know of any reason why a person who wanted to make a fandex shouldn't be allowed to, nor be allowed to ask what others think of it.
Why did you join this forum?
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Post by zephoid on Feb 20, 2013 14:23:00 GMT
I made it because i have been posting here for years and the threads of "how to change the codex" have come up at least 40 times. A simple point to my suggestions is actually shorter than typing them all out, because the codex needs a LOT of changes.
-What are the solutions to fix the harpy? T6 and 3+ save? what do we have now? A cfex with wings. GW simply didnt name it that way. It is also gives access to all the upgrades this way and is the solution to fliers. S9 vector strikes YES PLEASE. Fluff may have the harpy being the size of a trygon, but no one can expect a T6 6W ground model to be the same size as a T5 4W model. Its obviously a derivation of a Cfex rather than the trygon.
-The inv save power was actually taken from the 4th edition tyranid codex. It was a power you could take that read the exact same way. It was a manifestation of the hive mind that couldnt be canceled (no power required a test back then). This isnt drawing from the warp, but rather from the hive mind.
-Tyranids are scary. Read any of the books about them if you will. Leadership penalties are exactly what this codex should have more of. LD is too little of a mechanic in the game as is and having an army that exploits it would be pretty important. Also, Aura of Dispair is already in the codex on the broodlord, i simply made it accessable to the tyrant and moved it to the shooting phase, as it always should have been. I have heard that suggestion about 20 times.
Finally, at what point value would you take the pyrovore? 20 points? Even then i wouldnt touch it in a competitive list. 10? OK, maybe. However, you have to devolve into silly levels of point decrease to take some units. Lictors? in their current form, we may have a 40 point WS7 unit to make people take them. Harpy? 100 point FMC? how cheap do rippers have to be to make an appearance in the tournament scene? The codex is flawed FAR deeper than the point cost.
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Post by ZergLord on Feb 20, 2013 15:49:33 GMT
Because he felt like it? I mean I'm just guessing here. I don't know of any reason why a person who wanted to make a fandex shouldn't be allowed to, nor be allowed to ask what others think of it. What, was I wrong to ask? Did you read "Also, why did you make this codex?" as "Why did you make this codex dumbass, nobody will use it as it isn't official."? There are tons of fan codexes and fix-threads on the internet and I was just curious why he made it, especially since he apparently put a lot of work into it. Maybe he didn't just feel like doing it, maybe he did it for himself and his friends, a campaign, etc. Look at the Carnifex model. Take a close look at its anathomy. There's no way that it could fly if you attached wings on it. Not to mention that Carnifexes are built to be heavily armoured ground units. Maybe it makes sense from the gaming perspective to have a flying Carnifex, but it doesn't make sense from fluff perspective whatsoever. Yeah, I remember. I also remember that 6++ sucked and still sucks. Go and ask SoB players how they like their 6++. Go ask Chaos players would they ever take 6++ on their CSMs or Cultists. The lowest acceptible Inv. Save is 5++, 6++ is so worthless it shouldn't even exist. Yes, that's true, but in the Warhammer 40K almost all armies have one or more of the following rules: -Fearless -ATSKNF -Ld 10 So, unless you're forcing Leadership tests on 3d6 or giving massive Ld penalties on your opponents don't bother with Ld/Morale mechanics. I said "half of problems" not "all of problems". |
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Post by chuckles on Feb 20, 2013 16:11:34 GMT
Because he felt like it? I mean I'm just guessing here. I don't know of any reason why a person who wanted to make a fandex shouldn't be allowed to, nor be allowed to ask what others think of it. What, was I wrong to ask? Did you read "Also, why did you make this codex?" as "Why did you make this codex dumbass, nobody will use it as it isn't official."? There are tons of fan codexes and fix-threads on the internet and I was just curious why he made it, especially since he apparently put a lot of work into it. Maybe he didn't just feel like doing it, maybe he did it for himself and his friends, a campaign, etc. That was the impression I got from your post. In my defence, it was a bit vague as to why you were asking. Having said that, I apologise for misinterpreting your intentions. I shall now sit in this corner here and castigate myself for a few minutes. I agree with all your criticisms of the rules as posted by the way. Especially about the 6++. I only ever bought Warp Field because it was the only way to get a 2+ save for a flyrant back in 4th ed, the invulnerable save was something I was happy to get for free with a TEQ save but nothing I would ever have paid points for. 5+, better, or GTFO for Invulnerables. I agree that a Carnifex shouldn't be able to fly, but to my mind the Fex's bulk is mainly represented by its strength. It's clearly nothing to do with toughness, wounds or armour save, since a Hive Tyrant has exactly the same stats there and is considerably less massive. As for the Leadership thing, I do like the idea of having Tyranids be really rather scary, more so than most armies, but I also agree that just making people take Ld checks isn't going to do anything unless there are penalties imposed on said checks. Making people take leadership checks on 3D6 a la SitW however would work quite nicely. |
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Post by nurglitch on Feb 20, 2013 16:14:55 GMT
I think I suggested that a while ago, the notion that opponents playing Tyranids should take all leadership tests on 3D6 when under the Shadow in the Warp.
Speaking of Fearless, Terrify is a telepathy power that not only causes a Morale test, but removes Fearless from units. Very handy.
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Post by zephoid on Feb 20, 2013 18:31:08 GMT
Interesting notion for LD tests on 3d6, but too many armies that arent LD10 would have problems. 3d6 is average is 10.5, meaning ld7 is like 30% chance to pass. Thats a bit too strong considering you can cover most of the board with shadow turn 1 with tyrants or by turn 2-3 with warrior/zoan groups. ATSKNF only works so far. Being able to fly a tyrant into them, Aura of Dispair, then BL a unit that is sitting within 7-8" of the back edge stands a good chance of having it run off the board. Remember ATSKNF can still run the same as everyone else, they just regroup easier. LD9 is more common than LD10, but it usually doesnt matter. However, this scenario with Aura+brainleech means that they a bit less than half the time. Throw in 2 tyrants for -3 LD. on two targets. That could be a lot of running first turn. Killing a whole unit with a single morale check should be marginally difficult to create. Warp field will probably be increased to 5+ then. I was simply thinking that things like flying tyrants could make more use of a 6+ than the normal shooting psychic powers, but since i added useful AoE powers that arent shooting, 5+ would be a consideration in the exchange. It is free essentially since the tyrant is mastery 1 (should increasing masteries be an option? Seems like a common trend in the game now), which may be a problem. Might have to bump up the cost of the tyrant though since if we start adding decent inv saves to already tough models it removes the normal way of killing them. T6 terminator (2+, 5++) with MC abilities and high WS and I would be very scary and not all that expensive here. Idk about the flying fex tho. These still seem valid to me   The fex has almost the same torso as a tyrant. Why should the tyrant fly and not the fex? What is the harpy if not based on a fex? Seems to me the hive mind needed a flying MC and decided to build off something it had. Somehow it got in the fluff it was a flying trygon despite the discrepancies in stats (would it be better of the trygon? seems either way its still a stretch). It seems more related to the Cfex based on stats and the improvements i have heard everyone suggest always align it even more with a T6 4W 3+ Cfex. Still might end up branching the harpy off, but it would still be statted and upgraded similar (less Str maybe, but T6 3+ still). Seems like a waste of slot to me. Terrify is pretty meh. It usually ends up forcing a ld test on a ld 8-10 model that regains fearless next turn. Might be worth using a zoan to go for it if you had lots of LD penalties though. Synergy there would be cool. |
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