1850 Tournament list critique welcome!!

[roxor08]

Hi guys,

I'll be attending my first tournament EVER (darkstargt.com/)and I'm super excited. I've got my list hammered out for the most part and I'm hoping you guys could provide me with some good feedback on what to expect OR what I will have trouble with.

Please don't hesitate. I'd like to do Tyranids justice and place well, even though I don't have any expectations.

Total: 1848

HQ
Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Dual TL-Devourers
-Hive Commander

Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Dual TL-Devourers
-Old Adversary

Elite
2 Hive Guard
Doom of Malan'tai
-Mycetic Spore
2 Zoanthrope

Troops
15 Devilgants
-Mycetic Spore
15 Devilgants
-Mycetic spore
Tervigon 1
-Adrenal glands + Toxin Sacs
-Dominion, Catalyst, Onslaught
-Cluster Spines
Tervigon 2
-Adrenal glands + Toxin Sacs
-Dominon, Catalyst, Onslaught
-Stinger salvo

Fast Attack
16 Gargoyles
-Adrenal glands + Toxin Sacs

My thoughts are:
Gargoyles screening Flyrants if I can't deploy them behind LOS blocking, if I can they'll screen Tervigons. If I'm expecting an Alpha strike opponent I'll be spreading them out to prevent rapid fire plasma weapons.

Zoans hang back unless they roll Enfeeble when otherwise they'll be leading the charge slightly behind the gargoyles.

Hive guard (Obviously opening transports for Doom to suck the contents dry)

Doom (duh)

Devilgants will have 2 choices: Either make a unit of terminators disappear or try to take out a tough IC OR attempt to get a line on rear armor of a flier.

Tervigons will be spawning objective holders and if needed hang back to ensure the objective is held until at least turn 5.

Flyrants will take out as many troop units as possible. I think that I will only drop them from the sky in order to assault if I feel like they'll be grounded the next turn. I would like to remove as many scoring units from the opponents as possible (as I will have more) and make my opponent attempt to win by wipeout.

[roxor08]

Man I gotta say, I'm pretty disappointed in the responses...is it just that no one can offer criticism? Honestly anything will help..thanks

[scrotatohead]

I wouldn't sweat the lack of response. People respond for their own reasons and so to try and figure out why people are/aren't weighing is energy best invested elsewhere.

From my perspective it would help to know what kind of armies/meta you're going to be up against.

In general your army seems to reflect what is being fielded at tournaments right now so hard to make suggestions. I would say you could drop the Gargoyle upgrades. If you're truly using them as a meat screen then you're better off with more cheaper bodies. If you actually hope to get them into combat I would suggest keeping TS and taking advantage of the ToWound re-rolls. Blinding Venom 6's and wound re-rolls are a good thing.

I wouldn't necessarily hang back with the Zoans. Give them a 'gant screen and get them into the action. They don't do you any good if they're hanging back, alive, if nothing gets in range to kill. If anything keep your Hive Guard back or near mid-field to discourage your opponent from rushing vehicles into your deployment zone.

[Bot]

Sometimes (not always) the reason for people not commenting on a list is because the list is just fine. In this case, it might be one of those cases.

The only thing that I really question is that you've given one of the Tervigons Stinger salvo.

Anyway, good luck with the tournament.

[roxor08]

I understand. I'm just antsy for responses I guess. I'll replace the stinger w/ cluster spines. I thought the use in overwatch outweighed the scattering blast, but I am going to change my mind on that one

[Nightmare20]

Personally I prefer stinger salvo since you get precision shots and overwatch. What are your reasons for taking cluster?

[Bot]

you kill more stuff with Cluster spines than with Stinger salvo. Stinger salvo doesn't really do much in overwatch since it is only 4 shots... Sure you can make precision shots with Stinger salvo... but with only 4 shots a bad BS and the armour save of a Marine, that shooting is not going to do much if anything at all... And most of the time where you can shoot, would a large blast not be better? Gives you a better counter against hordes... And even if it is not hordes, you will end up killing more stuff with the Cluster spines than with Stinger Salvo anyway.

At least that is my opinion.

[brianb9999]

Stinger salvo is nice in that it can't scatter onto your own units...and never underestimate the usefulness of those precision shots! I don't run as many drop units usually, so cluster spines may be useful in this list, but I always go salvo. It really comes down to personal preference.

[roxor08]

I didn't take cluster spines originally due to the chance it'd scatter back on the spawned gants that I just let loose. However, I think that if I needed the chance to shoot, and my gants are too close, I'd just pass up that shooting opportunity (assuming said Tervigon hasn't gone into early menopause).

Otherwise, I've considered adding additional gargoyles for bodies and dropping the upgrades, but you can only afford 6 additional gargoyles for the cost of the upgrades. That's really not all that important considering they drop like flies.

I've also found that I appreciate my Hive Guard more than I did in the past and would really like to fine room for a 3rd. Dropping gargoyles could be enough for just that. I haven't found that the gargoyles are really that necessary because 1st turn rarely sees the Flyrants shot...Then I just end up overrunning them because the swooping Flyrants move faster anyways.

Could be just my opponents but between night fighting and other screen potential Flyrants will be safe turn 1 (with good deployment options). I can, however, see their usefulness if I'm playing against an alpha strike marine army. I can't protect my flyrants in that case and I might see plenty of alpha striking marines with the emergence of Dark Angels codex.

My other thought was to drop the gargoyles and Doom for an additional Hive guard and 2 x 2 Biovores. The chance of pinning and the more common occurrence of foot slogging lists could outweigh Doom's potential damage and gargoyle screen.

Thoughts?

[shinra1988]

This list is an absolute BEAST!! And very similar to my list.

I would suggest removing the gargoyles (128 pts) and adding another Hive gaurd (50pts) Adding a pod to the zoans (40) and with the final 40 points adding 2 more devilgants to each squad. = 1850 pts

Something I would suggest to counter the first turn shooty at the hive tyrants:

When you roll to see who goes first:

- If you get first turn, Deploy your Hive Tyrants on the table. (The chances of them stealing initiative is only 1/6)

If you lose the roll-off for 1st turn, start them in reserve. They will fly in, safe and sound, on 2nd turn and hurt everyone's feelings.

With this list, on your turn 2, your enemy has to deal with: 2 flyrants coming in shooting a massive amount of shots, with preferred enemy if they're beside each other, 2 zoans in drop pod laying down some mean psychic powers, a disgusting amount of devilgants and the doom of fricking malantai coming in to ruin your enemies' day.

If you land your devilgants near the tyrant with old adversary, well.. it's going to be a very bad day for your opponent.

This makes for a really scary drop list that is hard to counter.

Refined List:

HQ
Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Dual TL-Devourers
-Hive Commander

Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Dual TL-Devourers
-Old Adversary

Elite
3 Hive Guard
Doom of Malan'tai
-Mycetic Spore
2 Zoanthrope
- Mycetic Spore

Troops
17 Devilgants
-Mycetic Spore

17 Devilgants
-Mycetic spore

Tervigon 1
-Adrenal glands + Toxin Sacs
-Dominion, Catalyst, Onslaught
-Cluster Spines

Tervigon 2
-Adrenal glands + Toxin Sacs
-Dominon, Catalyst, Onslaught
-Cluster Spines


Hope this helps!

[scrotatohead]

Shinra1988,

Your list is solid, but do you have too many units in reserve if you keep the Flyrants off the table? All you would have on the board is your two Tervigon and your Hive Guard. The Hive Guard will be out of LOS most likely which means your opponent can focus fire all of their ranged attacks on the Tervigon. Terrain placement and night fighting can help, but if you're going second that means no biomancy buffs during the first wave of fire. Some armies might not be able to do much if you place your Tervies deep in your own zone, but others could pop one through use of marker lights and searchlights.

[roxor08]

Feb 23, 2013 18:50:57 GMT shinra1988 said:

This list is an absolute BEAST!! And very similar to my list.

I would suggest removing the gargoyles (128 pts) and adding another Hive gaurd (50pts) Adding a pod to the zoans (40) and with the final 40 points adding 2 more devilgants to each squad. = 1850 pts

Something I would suggest to counter the first turn shooty at the hive tyrants:

When you roll to see who goes first:

- If you get first turn, Deploy your Hive Tyrants on the table. (The chances of them stealing initiative is only 1/6)

If you lose the roll-off for 1st turn, start them in reserve. They will fly in, safe and sound, on 2nd turn and hurt everyone's feelings.

With this list, on your turn 2, your enemy has to deal with: 2 flyrants coming in shooting a massive amount of shots, with preferred enemy if they're beside each other, 2 zoans in drop pod laying down some mean psychic powers, a disgusting amount of devilgants and the doom of fricking malantai coming in to ruin your enemies' day.

If you land your devilgants near the tyrant with old adversary, well.. it's going to be a very bad day for your opponent.

This makes for a really scary drop list that is hard to counter.

Refined List:

HQ
Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Dual TL-Devourers
-Hive Commander

Hive Tyrant
-Wings
-Dual TL-Devourers
-Old Adversary

Elite
3 Hive Guard
Doom of Malan'tai
-Mycetic Spore
2 Zoanthrope
- Mycetic Spore

Troops
17 Devilgants
-Mycetic Spore

17 Devilgants
-Mycetic spore

Tervigon 1
-Adrenal glands + Toxin Sacs
-Dominion, Catalyst, Onslaught
-Cluster Spines

Tervigon 2
-Adrenal glands + Toxin Sacs
-Dominon, Catalyst, Onslaught
-Cluster Spines


Hope this helps!

Thank you very much for your input shinra1988 I would like to submit a few responses.

Regarding the extra hive guard: When adding a 3rd HG you effectively only add an additional S8 hit (statistically 4/6 shots hit with 3) the relatively short range but special abilities often make them a priority target for transport based armies. I don't necessarily want to add 50 points just to lose it.

Additionally, when I remove the gargoyles, if playing alpha strike SW list or the like I need tone able to bubble wrap my starting units.

As far as the zoans, I actually want the to be on the board to hopefully absorb low AP shooting (if determined the priority target) plus if I roll on biomancy I can dish out buffs for units that desperately need it. Also, I have a tendency to play too aggressively with zoans when I pod them in so I'd rather have less opportunity to lose them needlessly.

I think the largest difference that I've pointed out that is absolutely necessary (for me) are the gargoyles. I keep finding myself wavering between super gargoyles and naked gargoyles. Every time I take them with upgrades they never make it to melee, but whenever I take them naked, they make it into melee and I wish they had brought upgrades.

I think with my most recent battle in mind, I plan on dropping the gargoyle upgrades in favor of additional models.

[roxor08]

Can I ask: What does everyone think about taking out the Zoans in favor of adding 3 Biovores?

Biovores aren't affected by psychic defense...they can fire from a range equal to other long range fire. They can Pin units (as a bonus) and they can affect opponent deployment (can't bunch up behind ADL) thereby causing the opponent to not be able to execute his/her plan effectively.

Downside: Less buff chances (through biomancy) and maledictions (enfeeble) and 3++ save can bounce lots of fire off....

[FTGTEvan]

I'd say that's a fairly even trade off, so it kind of depends on how you feel about them. The zoans are probably a little more resilient and can make other units more resilient. On the other hand, Biovores will give Xenos armies a bad time in general. I have had success with both, so it's definitely a hard call. Regardless, it looks like a very strong list.