Help Knock 2000 pt down to 1850 All comers list

[shinra1988]

Hello All. This is my 2nd post I think. I had a lot of help with my old list when I started, so thanks to everyone who helped!

I've been playing against a lot of space wolves and guard lately... and have been having some issues against them.

I currently run two tervigons but lately have been finding them less effective.. they cost 190 pts with the upgrades I take, and usually only spawn once or twice.. these units just get killed and once they roll doubles they aren't very useful. Low WS, Low # attacks, etc.

Most players I face drop down a unit with enough meltas to kill one or more of my stupid tervies right off the bat before spawning. (if I get 2nd turn) or they sit across from the table bombarding me with AP3 weapons turning my MC's into melted pointy bits.

I actually win more often than not, but a few times I've faced lists where I was totally helpless.. (Space wolves hiding behind aegis defence lines getting counter charge off on my poor units + unit of long fangs with rerolling misses wasting my units from across the table with an AA gun to stave off my flying tyrants for example)

I'll give you a quick rundown of my list that I currently use.

HQ
Winged Hive Tyrant w/ 2x Twin Linked Devourers w Brainleech Worms - Hive Commander - 285 (Rolling biomancy)

Winged Hive Tyrant w/ 2x twin linked Devourers w Brainleech Worms - 260 (rolling biomancy)

Troops
Tervigon w 2 powers and cluster spines (rolling biomancy) 175

Tervigon w 2 powers and cluster spines (rolling biomancy) 175

3x Warriors with Barbed Strangler - 100

3x Warriors with Barbed Strangler - 100

20x Hormigants w/ toxin - 160

20x Hormigants w toxin - 160

10x Termigants (vanilla gants) - 50

20x Devilgants in pod - 240

Elites
Doom of Malatai in pod - 130

3x Hive Gaurd - 150

Total: 1985

I used to run a trygon but it has only ever made it into CC twice.. so I dropped that sucker and used devilgants which tend to cause much more pain.

Any revisions? I need this to be 1850.

I really like the doom and would like to know what would be smart to use other than tervigons. (too much AP3 close combat weapons in space marines / mindshackle scarabs to make them effective in CC)

Any help would be great!

Thanks hive.

[scrotatohead]

I feel your pain. Opponents dropping units into our backfield is as big a challenge for us as it is when we do it to them. And when they sit back and smack at us across open ground it can be very frustrating.

My thoughts on your list:

HQ is solid, no need to change anything there.

Elites: This is our bread and butter category with some of our best units. You might consider fielding ymgarls to compliment the problems your podded Devilgants cause.

Troops: First off, you've got 8 broods/units and you're limited to six. I would drop the warriors. Not because I don't like them. I do. The models are the essence of tyranids. But they go down too easily to readily available S8 weapons. Plus you've got plenty of synapse without them.

Second, you have to be certain of your tactics with Hormagaunts. For starters they aren't good for covering home objectives because they have no ranged weapon. They can of course assault troops that drop into your backfield, but they'll take fire going in and if your opponent dropped a Dread well you're in trouble. Hormies are good for assaulting and also for screening your Tervigons. But you don't need two broods of 20. I'd drop one.

those two changes free up 360 points.

With your Tervigons, do you play conservative and use them to spawn broods and cover your objectives or do you use them to advance on the enemy, spawning and ripping up armor. If you're offensive minded you should put crushing claws on them to ensure they take down any vehicle they bump into.

Five ymgarls is 115 points. Throw in two sets of crushing claws and you're at 165. That should leave you 60 points left over to purchase a Biovore and a 'gant or two.

[GuardDog78]

Honestly...I've had little luck with hormies (especially with SW counter-attacking) because assaulting through cover is always an issue dropping initiative. I love warriors...i think everyone on this board loves the idea/essence of warriors...but they die way too quickly and easily due to the readily available S8+ weaponry in the game.
I'd lose both hormagaunt and warrior broods...puts you at 1465.
Add a full brood of ymgarl stealers...
Upgrade your regular 10 gant brood to 16 devilgants with a spore.
1845 total and should really mess with their backfield...just keep those tervies in cover for turn one...and turn 2 they'll be your opponents least concern...

[shinra1988]

Thanks guys!

My Hormies are probably one of the most effective troop killers in my list.

People usually overlook them.. and then my 160 pt unit of hormies takes down a unit of terminators or tactical marines. (You're right with the Counter attacking and cover bit though) WHen I have to go through cover I get decimated. I really rely on their high initiative and striking first to take out the majority of a unit that I attack.

I usually have a unit of spawned gants in front of them to absorb overwatch/ provide a cover save, and then I charge in.

I've noticed the thing with warriors too.. They could be SO good if not for the instant death, garbage.

I really like those suggestions. I have a box with around 40 genestealers in them, that I haven't used at all.

When I've used Ymgarls in the past, they have seriously MESSED UP whatever squad they charged and then take a lot of fire while the enemy tries to kill them off.

Okay so: Revised list to test a few games with =

HQ
Winged Hive Tyrant w/ 2x Twin Linked Devourers w Brainleech Worms - Hive Commander - 285 (Rolling biomancy)

Winged Hive Tyrant w/ 2x twin linked Devourers w Brainleech Worms - 260 (rolling biomancy)

Troops
Tervigon w 2 powers and cluster spines (rolling biomancy) 175

Tervigon w 2 powers and cluster spines (rolling biomancy) 175

16x Devilgants in pod - 200

20x Devilgants in pod - 240

Elites
Doom of Malatai in pod - 130

Ymgarl Stealers x10 - 230

3x Hive Gaurd - 150

Total: 1845

Thanks for the help guys

any tactics you would suggest with this list?

[shinra1988]

That only leaves my 2 tyrants,

2 Tervigons

and

3 hive guard on the table first turn.

Won't this mean a lot of my best stuff will die? (I REALLY need the hive guard for anti tank)

[GuardDog78]

Its situational based on deployment and night fighting. Making sure your units are in decent cover or out if line of sight is key...and if night fighting is in effect, it only boosters their survivability. Going first helps immensely in this case - putting your tyrants in swooping mode, buffing your tervies or Hguard with Endurance or Iron Arm.

EDIT: I hate losing my hive guard early...but there's nothing your tyrants can't handle shooting rear armor or gliding and assaulting with smash attacks.

[shinra1988]

What in this list can take on terminators? My opponents like to SPAM them..

Tervies are too slow, and usually take 4 or 5 wounds with no armor save because of the stupid power weapons they use.

That's what I used my hormies for, to SWARM over terminators and hit them with handfulls of wounds so that even with a 2+ they usually go down in 1 or 2 rounds of combat.

Any suggestions for killing 2+ armorsave guys with this list?

Thanks (and sorry for all the questions)

[FTGTEvan]

If you hit the terminators with Termagants to support the terv, that should help out - it would prevent your opponent getting many more than 1 terminator in B2B with the terv. Giving her CC can help her take out more per turn, and the gants will supply the numbers. Also, if they have power fists, she'll go simultaneously. The Ymgarls should also do well. Lastly, you could get a different psychic power with any of your psykers that might be effective (I think Smite is AP2?).

[GuardDog78]

Volume of fire from devilgants...same with a tyrant if it unless with twinlinked devs and then charges...they go first on initiative, higher weaponskill and ignore armour... But best bet is usually making them roll lots of saves...and 60 shots from a gant brood works pretty well.
Obviously DoM catalyst and life leech do a number on them...
Taking the primaries power "psychic shriek" does wonders to guys in power armor as well...

[shinra1988]

Ahh yes, okay that sounds perfect.

It will just take some getting used to. It's just a different strategy than what I have been fielding.

I'm looking forward to trying it out. Thanks!