Flyrantguard?

[mrmongoose30]

I would not be surprised if you can't do this as I often get excited about an idea only to find out I missed a rule somewhere that disallows it. I was wondering if you did a conga line with Tyrant guard with your flyrant in the back of the line, while swooping you must move 12 inches so you jump up 12 and move the line behind without breaking unit cohesion if you could swoop and still gain the benefit of being in a unit of Tyrant guard, also if this were to work would look out sir rolls stop you from having to take grounded tests.

[Macradon]

Problem is, Tyrant guards slow your Tyrant down, you want your tyrant to be mobile with wings. But I think you can still do it

[carados]

The problem with this is, unless they've changed it, you have to move at the speed of the slowest member of the unit. So you can only walk 6" regardless of whether you could otherwise make a legal swooping move.

[ranmafan]

That is correct. A flyrant is pointless w/ a Tyrant Guard.

OTOH you CAN attach a Tyranid Prime to it instead...

[infornography]

They changed that. 6th edition each model is allowed to move however they want or not. You can even have some models run and others not but the models that don't run can't shoot.

The interesting question is how would you address shooting at such a unit? This is an interesting conundrum in multiple ways. First do they have to use snap fire or sky fire to hit the unit? If not, can wounds dealt to the tyrant guard carry over to the tyrant, does hitting the tyrant guard cause the flyrant to take a grounding test? If you have to use skyfire to hit the unit then as silly as it may be, the tyrant could then use LoS.

This is a one off case that is so absurd that the rules just kind of fall flat on their face. The best way I can think of to address the situation is to force the shooter to focus fire either the flyrant or the tyrant guard and deny the flyrant from the ability to LoS while swooping. This would pretty much negate the purpose of the tyrant guard while swooping, but if the flyrant is grounded he can then LoS all the followup fire since he would no longer be swooping. Note: none of this is in the rules, it is just a proposed solution to a sticky rules conundrum.

[zoat]

If anyone comes to GW with that question, they will probably just negate the Independent Character rules for FMCs.
Or if you buy a unit of Tyrant Guards to a flyrant they will handle it that way the FMC isn't able to swoop any more, for he cannot leave the unit of Tyrant Guard under any circumstances.

[Raven]

Maybe you can join a unit of Tyrant, the question is why? to reduce your mobility? to let yourself get assaulted? to get shot at normal BS? I really don't see the point of joining Tyrant Guard. The only use I can think of is ablative wounds to survive the first round, but a smart opponent will realise you can't leave the Tyrant Guard and shoot at the rest of your army instead, since you've effectively removed the Flyrant's threat potential.

[snowdaman]

One thing i think that might make this unable to be used even tho as others say i dont know why you would want to is that i thought i read somewere that flying models don't count as being on the board, as in they are way up in the sky. Like a flying model can not contest an objective unless if lands(gliding mode) kind of thing. Now that may have been just the flyers but i dont see why it wouldnt be the same for FMC's

[coredump]

I have not seen any rule like that anywhere. I believe you were misinformed...


As for the OP, yes you can, and yes it will 'work'; for about 1 turn. Then you will not be able to complete another Swoop move....

[snowdaman]

Ill have to check when i get home. Someone said something along the lines of flyers can't hold objectives while flying and if the only thing u have on the board is a zooming flyer you count as having no models on the table.

Sent from my GT-I9100M using proboards

[ranmafan]

Flyers are flyers. And no, a model on the table is a model on the table.

Flying Monstrous Creatures are far less restricted than Flyers - for one thing they can choose to Glide instead of Swoop. They can start on the table instead of having to start in reserve. I don't remember anything in the BRB saying FMCs cannot hold objectives - merely Swarms, Vehicles/mounted in vehicles, falling back or specifically stated to be NOT scoring.

Check pages 49 and 123 of the BRB.

(We're not supposed to post the printed material from any book/codex so you'll have to look it up yourself)

[mrmongoose30]

As for how to shoot at the unit don't you need to shoot at the closest model in the unit. So if that is the flyrant you would follow all the rules for shooting at a swooping monstrous creature with the added bonus of look out sirs, if the tyrant guard is a closer model then you would shoot at that which is still less shots at your FMC and less grounding tests you would have to make.

[Raven]

Jan 31, 2013 16:48:21 GMT mrmongoose30 said:

As for how to shoot at the unit don't you need to shoot at the closest model in the unit. So if that is the flyrant you would follow all the rules for shooting at a swooping monstrous creature with the added bonus of look out sirs, if the tyrant guard is a closer model then you would shoot at that which is still less shots at your FMC and less grounding tests you would have to make.

I'm afraid that's not how it would work, you aren't shooting at a swooping Hive Tyrant with some Tyrant Guard attached, You're shooting at a Tyrant Guard brood that has a character in it that just happens to be a FMC, so normal BS regardless of which model is closest, anything else is a house ruling.

[voncrown]

Jan 31, 2013 17:45:30 GMT Raven said:

Jan 31, 2013 16:48:21 GMT mrmongoose30 said:

As for how to shoot at the unit don't you need to shoot at the closest model in the unit. So if that is the flyrant you would follow all the rules for shooting at a swooping monstrous creature with the added bonus of look out sirs, if the tyrant guard is a closer model then you would shoot at that which is still less shots at your FMC and less grounding tests you would have to make.

I'm afraid that's not how it would work, you aren't shooting at a swooping Hive Tyrant with some Tyrant Guard attached, You're shooting at a Tyrant Guard brood that has a character in it that just happens to be a FMC, so normal BS regardless of which model is closest, anything else is a house ruling.

The rules really just don't have anything to clearly cover this, so anything is necessarily a house ruling, including your solution.

[WestRider]

If you use three Tyrant Guard, space them out just right, and have the Flyrant zig-zag back and forth across their direction of travel, you can keep them all in coherency for three or four Turns, assuming they're not going to have to go through Difficult Terrain at any point.

Firing at the combined Unit: There are a few areas that are unclear, but in general in 6th, there is a pattern that a Unit with an IC attached is considered to maintain whatever "attributes" it had. For instance, an IG Squad with a Blood Angels Character attached can still receive Orders as an IG Unit, and cannot benefit from a nearby Blood Angels Sanguinary Priest.

The principle isn't laid out explicitly anywhere that I can find, but I also can't find any counter-examples at the moment, so it seems to make a good precedent for the Unit remaining Infantry for purposes of getting shot at.