Lash Whip & Acid Blood

[glassiya]

A couple of days ago I was rereading all rules and FAQs because of an upcoming tournament. And found something interesting.

Lashwhips, as written in FAQ, cause models in question to "count their Initiative as 1 till the end of the Assault phase" (c).

So, how this works with Initiative test, for exaple - Acid Blood one?

If I remember correctly, 5th rulebook mentioned that characteristic tests always use unmodified profile. But there's no such limitation now, I checked.

Also, there's clear difference between PowerFists/Hammers/heck, even Crushing Claws on the very same page of our FAQ (they don't change initiative! They cause you to strike at Initiative Step 1. That's clearly does nothing with actual Ini value) and LW, that actually DO change it to 1.

It sounds a bit of cheating, but it also makes the AB biomorph at least worthy to actually buy - at least, for HT. And there's no clear way to argue with that - at least, I didn't found that yet.

What do you think, Hive? It's not like we want to be called cheaters, so it's better to make sure first.

[andy089]

I would have to have a look at the rulebook about this, but in the previous edition there was no mention of a MODEL taking a characteristics test, only UNITS. Meaning that in the case of acid blood, any model of the unit could take the test (as Acid blood does not say "the models in base contact" but "the unit that struck the blow"), not necessarily the ones which are in base contact with the lash whips (so if only a single guy is not in base contact, he can make all the initiative tests at unmodified initiative as the rule of majority values doesn't count for characteristics tests, because the rulebook talks only about models);
but this was in 5th edition, I'll check what's the story now.
EDIT: 6th edition rulebook page 7: you take the highest value when doing a single test for the whole unit.

So as long as everyone is under the effect of lash whips, this works. This is especially nice because lots of hits are struck at the same time (I1), so that IF your guy dies it'll have lost lots of wounds at the same time! sadly there aren't a lot of models with lash whips and acid blood...

Another Edit: during 5th this still was questionable because the term "unmodified leadership" can be stretched a bit - do you modify it if you replace something?

[infornography]

Interesting interaction, still don't think it makes acid blood worth it in most cases, but interesting all the same.

[andy089]

Well to be honest it doesn't make it worth acid blood. between the usually 4+ to avoid it and armor saves of anything that will get to a Hive Tyrant or Pyrovore (lol I can't believe I am saying this) will be armored accordingly....but for pyrovores you need venomthropes or warriors nearby, otherwise you obviously won't get any lash whips...

thought about this a while ago (during fifth), but it's not worth it.

[voncrown]

Hmm, what about outflanking some pyrovores with a lash whip + regeneration prime attached? Using Hive Commander, I mean.

[infornography]

Hive Commander can only outflank troops choices, Pyrovores are Elite, and still wouldn't be worth it.

[wisdomseyes1]

Jan 15, 2013 3:45:56 GMT voncrown said:

Hmm, what about outflanking some pyrovores with a lash whip + regeneration prime attached? Using Hive Commander, I mean.

Jan 15, 2013 3:45:56 GMT voncrown said:

Hmm, what about outflanking some pyrovores with a lash whip + regeneration prime attached? Using Hive Commander, I mean.

Jan 15, 2013 3:45:56 GMT voncrown said:

Hmm, what about outflanking some pyrovores

Jan 15, 2013 3:45:56 GMT voncrown said:

pyrovores

No

Jan 15, 2013 3:45:56 GMT voncrown said:

Using Hive Commander, I mean.

Hive commander outflanks troops choices.

[glassiya]

Jan 15, 2013 1:37:15 GMT andy089 said:

Well to be honest it doesn't make it worth acid blood. between the usually 4+ to avoid it and armor saves...

this is the point. With Initiative as 1, they'll fail the test on 2+, and Acid ignores armour saves.

Actually, I think this isn't so bad of an upgrade for a hand-to-hand Flyrant or something

[wisdomseyes1]

Jan 15, 2013 4:02:14 GMT glassiya said:

Jan 15, 2013 1:37:15 GMT andy089 said:

Well to be honest it doesn't make it worth acid blood. between the usually 4+ to avoid it and armor saves...

this is the point. With Initiative as 1, they'll fail the test on 2+, and Acid ignores armour saves.

Actually, I think this isn't so bad of an upgrade for a hand-to-hand Flyrant or something

The biggest issue with acid blood, it requires you to be losing a combat to be effective.

You don't want to be taking wounds, and you don't usually put points into betting you will be taking those wounds from close combat (which means you are excluding the possibility of taking wounds from guns)

Plus, lash whips make combat very hard for enemies to even get the chance to hit... hopefully...

You don't lose shooting weapon slots to put close combat weapon slots that make you better in close combat for the purpose to be in close combat and then spend points to hope you take wounds so you have a chance of inflicting an Ap2 wound on a roll of a 2+... which is your close combat abilities as is.

[voncrown]

Jan 15, 2013 3:53:37 GMT infornography said:

Hive Commander can only outflank troops choices, Pyrovores are Elite, and still wouldn't be worth it.

Derp. Right. Shows how often I think of using it on anything but tervigons, I guess. And it wasn't really a "this will be awesome" idea so much as a "This might be good for a laugh".

I may be new, but I'm not so foolish as to think pyrovores are actually good for anything.
Maybe if they were like what, 20 points and not eating an elites slot?