Down and out...

[jhussey]

I've been a Tyranid player for about 18 years now and I love my nids. I haven't looked at 6th edition yet, but I'm hearing alot of negative for the nids. Alot of the units I used to love are junk now and it's disheartening. I had loads of fun playing in 5th edition and I did pretty well over all. Some thing like a 9-4 record I think I had. Anyway I was sitting down looking over some things in my 5th edition rule book then looking online at 6th edition since I dont have the book yet and I couldn't help but be totally discouraged. Rolling dice for charge distance now? can't run and assault in the same turn? It seems to be getting really shooty. I'm ok with shooty, but I've always built my tyranids as an assault based army. I felt that is most true to their fluff. Now it seems that it isnt the case. I love my Carnifex with it's crushing claws and scything talons. I love my 2 squads of 6 raveners with their rending claws. I love my Flyrant with 2 sets of scything talons, my 10 warriors with the same. My horde of hormagaunts, I think I have almost 150 of the little scuttlers. My Genestealers that made my opponets go aww (please do not swear). Anyway I guess my point is I'm alittle heart broke at all the changes and just wonder what everyone else felt.

[Nightmare20]

Right there with you man. I jumped into Warhammer this October after theorycrafting for years and years. I had an enormous challenge choosing between Black Templar and Tyranids but I finally decided on Tyranids only to find out that the new rules as a whole hurt our Army especially the Genestealer, easily one of my favorite units ever. I'm holding on in hopes of White Dwarf Updates and new flier models. :/

[Davor]

Yes it really sucks for assulting armies, just means we really have to plan for it. I havne't gamed yet either, but for now, it's a new learning curve to be an assaulting army.

Only thing, I can say is in a year or two, we should have a new codex. I am sure, Genestealers will be able to assault if they run and or turn they come in. My guess is Ymgarls will disapear or be combined some how.

It also sucks we have no Allies and can't use Emplaced Weapons or weapon emplacements. Yes we got the shaft, but I am hoping that in our new codex things will turn around for us. After all GW wants us to buy new models so all we can do is be patient for two years.

So for now, just do what us Tyranids are suppose to do. Adapt. It will be tougher, but we will find a way.

Just sucks assaulting Nid force doesn't seem so viable now in 6th edition.

I wouldn't get your hopes up for a White Dwarf update. People been saying that for 2 or 3 years now. I am sure we will get no new minis via WD because what will GW sell when a new codex comes out in 2 years then?

[jhussey]

I'm not giving up on my nids, and I still plan to play assault heavy, it's just going to be as you said, a challenge and a trial. I'll adapt. I'll find new tactics and hopefully I'll still enjoy it.

[Davor]

The thing with 6th now, I believe you have to give your oppoent choice to shoot at, or more like, what is the lesser threat? So if they ignore the lesser threat, you make sure they pay the price for it.

So if you have a brood of stealers, say have them go with a brood of 20 or 30 gargs so if they ignore the stealers, they will pay for it then later. Not saying this is a good tactic, but just an example.

Also if you find a good tactic, please share with us.

[halos]

You know a lot of folks complain about nerfs to nids with the 6th edition ruleset but, after playing it since release I don't see it.

Certainly assault is trickier, random charge, changes to fleet and overwatch are obvious problems buuut, even in 5th assault was not all that great, you'd get in with your turn 3 masterstroke and either kill a squad and get shot up or charge something too tough and lose a bunch of models/wounds to No Retreat. Or you'd spam stealers and make a mess of the board edges fine.

Now I'm not gonna deny 'stealers got hit hard, as really did the vast majority of low-resilience assault units (hormies, Wyches, Boyz etc.) For assault it's basically bring 3+ armour or go home if you want to win.

However we don't have to win, in fact often we don't want to win straight away. The loss of No Retreat is huge, gants are actually viable, incredible tarpits. That Dreadknight only has 5 attacks; throw 11 gants into it and it'll be stuck for two turns unless it dies to poison. And you can throw more gants into it to keep it stuck there forever.

We have phenomenal board control and screening abilities with Tervigons. MCs are more resilient through the changes to their interactions with terrain. The new Psychic powers add a whole new dimension to the game.
We lost some capabilities but gained a lot more, 6th edition is good for Tyranids on a whole, a lot of the changes which neuter other armies (Power weapons, assault vehicles, hull points etc.) have no effect on us and, in many cases, are even beneficial.

[nidzy]

Tyranids benefited from a lot of the rules changes in 6th, but it doesn't change the fact that our 5th edition codex was lackluster. Stealers were still fragile in 5th, but not being able to assault from the outflank hurt them a lot. With that said, the broodlord is an excellent character now and with biomancy support he his definitely worth his points.

I play stealers now as an infiltrator or as a counter assault unit with the broodlord for support.

If you need proof of the improvements we gained in 6th checkout flying monstrous creatures, the new rules for cover and monstrous creatures. There are a lot of ways we can be successful in this edition! I certainly don't think we got any worse overall that we were in 5th.

[brianb9999]

The introduction of hull points makes it easier for nids to destroy vehicles...in 5th, it was all about suppression, but now all those consecutive hits add up to something. Also, I think FNP got better for nids because we can now use it against ap1/2 weapons being fired at our MC's. Overall, especially with the loss of no retreat wounds, I think we're much better off in 6th.

[fragile]

Overall, anyone that complains about what "it appears" that Tyranids have become without playing needs to just go home. Some changes hurt the 5th edition Nids and some changes made them much much better. If you cannot adapt, go play GK. Nids are very strong in 6th.

[vivi22]

Jan 11, 2013 23:03:47 GMT halos said:

You know a lot of folks complain about nerfs to nids with the 6th edition ruleset but, after playing it since release I don't see it.

Certainly assault is trickier, random charge, changes to fleet and overwatch are obvious problems buuut, even in 5th assault was not all that great, you'd get in with your turn 3 masterstroke and either kill a squad and get shot up or charge something too tough and lose a bunch of models/wounds to No Retreat. Or you'd spam stealers and make a mess of the board edges fine.

Now I'm not gonna deny 'stealers got hit hard, as really did the vast majority of low-resilience assault units (hormies, Wyches, Boyz etc.) For assault it's basically bring 3+ armour or go home if you want to win.

However we don't have to win, in fact often we don't want to win straight away. The loss of No Retreat is huge, gants are actually viable, incredible tarpits. That Dreadknight only has 5 attacks; throw 11 gants into it and it'll be stuck for two turns unless it dies to poison. And you can throw more gants into it to keep it stuck there forever.

We have phenomenal board control and screening abilities with Tervigons. MCs are more resilient through the changes to their interactions with terrain. The new Psychic powers add a whole new dimension to the game.
We lost some capabilities but gained a lot more, 6th edition is good for Tyranids on a whole, a lot of the changes which neuter other armies (Power weapons, assault vehicles, hull points etc.) have no effect on us and, in many cases, are even beneficial.

Have to agree with you here, and you didn't even mention FMC's. Yeah, some units like Genestealers got hit pretty hard. Stuff like Hormagaunts are a bit less useful (though not as nerfed as Stealers), but there's a lot of stuff that got a lot better.

The new Psychic powers alone opened up some crazy good options. FMC's are a pain in the butt to shoot out of the sky. I see people always talk about the grounded tests being a bad thing, but honestly, I've never had one decide a game, and you're more likely to make it than not. I actually played a 2v2 in one of my first 6th edition games where my opponents, Tau and Necron players, fired every shot they could from every unit at one flying Hive Tyrant. I literally flew it right at them to see how well it would last so every unit they had fired. All told, I did end up grounded, and I took two wounds total on turn 1 because the unit that grounded me was the very last one to shoot. These things are good, especially if you don't do something stupid just to get a feel for what will happen.

I certainly won't argue that 6th is more shooty than 5th, and some units took a hit. Hell, I was very worried about how some of the changes would affect us when the rule book first hit. But honestly, after playing several games of 6th, some with more shooty Tyranid armies, and some still focusing on a mix of shooting and assault, I have to say we made out pretty well. Our codex in 5th wasn't that great, but I think we honestly improved overall this edition.

[coredump]

We are stronger now that we have been in a while.

[commandersasha]

The OP's reaction was pretty much how I was feeling, until a load of my friends who keep track of their win/loss numbers pointed out that I was actually beating them!

It DOES seem like an uphill struggle, but actually, it is for ALL armies, and one thing in our favour is BODIES: 6th may be all about the shooting, which at long range we suck at, but at 12-24" we actually do pretty well at; it is also however ALL about the primary objectives, and the secondary ones too!

Now that we have lost No Retreat wounds, that Rage no longer forces us off objectives, and that Go To Ground can get us to 2+ coversaves, I find that however rough the midgame is on me, I am still doing very well in the endgame, and that's where the win is!

Some units certainly ARE off the list: Genies now suck, but Ymgarls are golden, so use your vanillas as noodle-faces!
Some are obligatory: a Tervigon with CC rolling on Biomancy is too good not to take at least one of. I personally never take a second of any unit other than troops, as I hate spamming, so even though I run my Terv as a troop choice, I would only ever put one in my list.

The hottest rumours are saying that 'Nids will get some revised rules very soon, possibly in next month's White Dwarf, so keep your eye out for another FMC, and possibly an anti-air rewrite for the Pyrovore.

NEVER sell an army you love; even if they suck now(and I don't think they do), sooner or later they will get a re-write, and you'll never get them as cheap as you sold them for!

Just my 2 cents ;-)

[infornography]

Tyranids are doing rather well in 6th edition all things considered. The buffs to MCs are mostly responsible for that.

What 6th edition did to Tyranids though is take a codex that was already about 50% garbage and remove another 20% of our viable options while buffing the rest quite a bit. This is resulting in a lot of very similar looking nid lists running around because the number of our units that just aren't worth their points numbers more than the ones that are.

Nids are actually more successful in 6th overall than in 5th but you have to design a VERY tight list and there are a few units that are all but must haves. Most notably is the dakkaflyrant. He is the ONLY reliable anti-air option our codex has since GW in their infinite wisdom decided to not only make us the ONLY codex that can't take any allies at all, but also the ONLY codex that can't use any of the fortification guns they added to the game. Hell the anti air fortification guns don't even autofire since they are all gun emplacements which don't have that rule.

There are rumors on the horizon of a big nid release sometime this year, take it with a grain of salt but an anti-air flyer based on the harpy is part of the rumors.

[jhussey]

I enjoyed reading most of the comments. Like I said I haven't played any in 6th edition yet and I've just been reading on here the complaints about it. True it may have been unfair of me to complain since I haven't played, but let me ask this then: This is an old list of mine, I love this list and saw a fair amount of victories and close battles with it, so tell me what you think it would do now. I forget all of the extra biomorphs I took with them so bear that in mind. It's just a general overview.

Flyrant 2x Scything Talons

50 Hormies w/ toxin sac
25 termies w/ devs
10 warriors w/ 2x ST toxin sac
10 Genestealers

12 raveners with RC/ST

3 Zoanthropes

2 Canifex w/ Crushing claws, Scything talons, toxin sacs, regen

Lictor

2 Biovores

Like I said I cant remember all the biomorphs I gave them since it's been over a year I last played, but what are your thoughts?

Thanks as always

[lordbob]

Exchange the scything talons for two set of devourers.

Turn the genestealers into ymgarls, genestealers last a lot not being able to assault, but ymgarls still can.

The warriors, personally I would convert them into hive guard, but if you want to keep them I'd say either add a Mycetic Spore, or add wings to them, change the talons to sword or swords/lashwhips and make them into shrikes.

The hormogaunts, add adrenal glands to them so they can get rerolls against T4 and can take out tanks.

There is the obligatory add-a-tervigon stipulation, but that's only if you want to buy new models