first ever serious list 2k points

[patsfan32]

Hello hive, I'm new to 40k in general and I picked up nids because I like them on a conceptual level. I'd like some advice on this 2k point list I made as this is what I will be buying towards. As far as questions I have I just want to know if I'm on a good track and if this list is kosher as far as the rules are concerned. Also I REALLY like hormagants and genestealers for many reasons, yet I keep hearing not to play them. Is there any particular tactics I could use to squeeze them in? Thanks for any and all critiques on this list!

+++ 2k roster (2000pts)

Selections:

Tyranids 5th Ed (2010) (Primary Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ + (275pts)

* Hive Tyrant (275pts)
(Psyker, Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature)
Bonded Exoskeleton, Implant Attack (15pts), Paroxysm, Psychic Scream, 2x Twin-linked devourers *edit* (30pts), Wings (60pts)


+ Elites + (270pts)

* Hive Guard Brood (150pts)
* 3x Hive Guard (150pts)
(Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk)
3x Claws and Teeth, 3x Hardened Carapace, 3x Impaler Cannon


* Zoanthrope Brood (120pts)
* 2x Zoanthrope (120pts)
(Psyker, Shadow in the Warp, Synapse Creature, Warp Field)
2x Claws and Teeth, 2x Reinforced Chitin, 2x Warp Blast, 2x Warp Lance


+ Troops + (725pts)

* Termagant Brood (140pts)
* Mycetic Spore (40pts)
(Deep Strike, Fearless, Immobile Pod, Limited Sentience, Transport Spore)
Hardened Carapace, Lash Whip
* 10x Termagant (100pts)
(The Scuttling Swarm)
10x Chitin, 10x Claws and Teeth, 10x Devourer (50pts)


* Termagant Brood (140pts)
* Mycetic Spore (40pts)
(Deep Strike, Fearless, Immobile Pod, Limited Sentience, Transport Spore)
Hardened Carapace, Lash Whip
* 10x Termagant (100pts)
(The Scuttling Swarm)
10x Chitin, 10x Claws and Teeth, 10x Devourer (50pts)


* Termagant Brood (75pts)
* 15x Termagant (75pts)
(The Scuttling Swarm)
15x Chitin, 15x Claws and Teeth, 15x Fleshborer


* Tervigon (195pts)
(Brood Progenitor, Psyker, Shadow in the Warp, Spawn Termagants, Synapse Creature)
Adrenal Glands (10pts), Bonded exoskeleton, Catalyst (15pts), Claws and teeth, Dominion, Stinger Salvo, Toxin Sacs (10pts)


* Tervigon (175pts)
(Brood Progenitor, Psyker, Shadow in the Warp, Spawn Termagants, Synapse Creature)
Bonded exoskeleton, Catalyst (15pts), Claws and teeth, Dominion, Stinger Salvo


+ Fast Attack + (160pts)

* Gargoyle Brood (160pts)
* 20x Gargoyle (160pts)
(Instinctive Behaviour - Lurk)
20x Adrenal Glands (20pts), 20x Blinding Venom, 20x Chitin, 20x Claws and Teeth, 20x Fleshborer, 20x Toxin Sacs (20pts), 20x Wings


+ Heavy Support + (570pts)

* Carnifex Brood (190pts)
* Carnifex (190pts)
(Fearless, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Living Battering Ram)
Bonded Exoskeleton, 2x Twin-linked Devourers with Brainleech Worms (30pts)


* Carnifex Brood (190pts)
* Carnifex (190pts)
(Fearless, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Living Battering Ram)
Bonded Exoskeleton, 2x Twin-linked Devourers with Brainleech Worms (30pts)


* Carnifex Brood (190pts)
* Carnifex (190pts)
(Fearless, Instinctive Behaviour - Feed, Living Battering Ram)
Bonded Exoskeleton, 2x Twin-linked Devourers with Brainleech Worms (30pts)



Profile

[GuardDog78]

Lets go through your units individually just to point out pros or cons...

Tyrant
- Wings are great and vastly increase the utility of the tyrant...especially as our only viable defense against flyers.
- Implant attack...not worth the points...only works on rolling a 6 to wound...you can automatically trade half your attacks for smash attacks which give you Strength 10 and will insta-kill anything up to T5.
- Deathspitters are the same cost as Devourers...but are lower strength and half the number of shots. AP 5 is negligible in 40k where most units will get that with cover...and many have better than a 4+ armor save...plus S6 will help with destroying light transports.

Hive Guard & Zoanthropes
- With excellent units and most people will agree that theyboth excel in their respective rolls...neither having a particular downside. Good choices as our only serious ranged anti-armor.

Termagants & Tervigons
- Excellent choices ...basically our most viable for troop selection. Just make sure you keep enough termagants off the board for spawning purposes.

Gargoyles
- For a brood of 20 or more...toxin and adrenaline are worth it for an offensive unit. If you plan on running them just as a screen to provide cover...10 models with no upgrades is most cost effective.

Carnifex
- Your likely to get a lot of flak on this one. I've found a single devourer few in a pod to very rather effective if deployed properly. Marching 3 across the board...well..its a lot of firepower..but expect to lose 1 or 2 pretty earl in the game. I would recommend swapping out at least one for a Trygon...giving you some more versatility and an incredibly effective close combat MC.

Hormagaunts
Can't give a whole lot of pointers for them because mine always seem to get torn apart in 6th edition.

Genestealers
- Mixed feelings among people...not assaulting after outflanking hurt them some...but can still be an effective infiltrator unit...and broodlords are excellent in challenges. Running ymgarl genestealers has become a popular, although more expensive means of accomplishing something similar .

[patsfan32]

Thank you for your feedback it was very insightful. The tyrant is supposed to have tl devs idk why I wrote death spitters but ya haha. Ya I knew I'd get flak on the carnifexs but they are so cool! I'd be willing to trade them tho to get a trygon as they are also real cool looking. If I drop the carnifexes what would you recommend me inserting besides a Trygon?

Edit- also can I count tervigons as troops if my broods of devilgaunts are in reserve?

[GuardDog78]

Yes...as long as you have one termie unit per tervigon it's fine...they can be in reserve... I like to load mine up with devourers and spore them in.
I also understand the love for Carnifex...i have 3 myself. But the Trygon is more resilient and usually better in close combat. The option to run as a prime for additional synapse and extra firepower is also nice. Tyranofex are very costly for what you get...mawlocs are rather hit or miss (literally and figuratively)... Biovores are a fairly cheap and effective long range unit to consider...especially if you end up facing a lot of infantry based armies. If you read through the tactics section of this board...you'll find tons of usefully information on how to deal with the meta in your area. I've been on here for a little over a year...and this place has provided so much useful information that i can't even begin to list it. I'd also suggest reading some of the battle reports to get a feel of how the units work best and support one another (Halos has some of my favorites due to the fluff...but the visuals that he and several others provide using programs like Vasal make it much easier to grasp what's going on.)

[infornography]

If you love genestealers you should absolutely take Ymgarl Genestealers. They are still very solid and scare the (please do not swear) out of any opponent who has faced them. Generic genestealers are not even close to worth their points in 6th ed.

Hormies got nerfed almost as hard as generic genestealers in 6th since you cannot run and assault in the same turn anymore. Just generally not worth it.

Dakkafexes are very effective units. but are ammo magnets and die pretty quick. I find other units are more worth their points in the long run, but you won't catch any flak from me for running that configuration. As to what make good replacements, Trygon, Trygon prime, and biovores are all solid heavy options.

Your flyrant REALLY should have Hive Commander and doesn't need Implant attack at all. The basic termies you have there aren't needed since you have two units of devilgaunts in pods and 2 tervis.

You should probably take crushing claws on at least one of the tervis. They make it a close combat nightmare for your opponent and able to demolish pretty much any vehicle that makes the mistake of getting close to it.

[jahatch42878]

Also, for future reference, you don't need to list all the gear for standard stuff... make your life easier and the army list a bit more condensed...

for writing your own army lists it is a great idea so you don't forget stuff though!!!!

I would agree that if you don't already have 3 carnifex models, I would recommend trying out a trygon so you can compare it to the carnifexes (both in terms of damage output, surviveability, threat level to the enemy, etc)...

Also, with your deep striking termagants you'll need something with synapse to keep them in line the turn after they deep strike and be able to vary where you drop them instead of just always dropping them in front of your line to be close enough to your other synapse creatures... so keep that in mind when deploying your swarm. The Trygon Prime can help with that (assuming he shows up at the same time) but you'll have to mix some stuff up to get the extra 40 pts.

As others have said, the Implant Attack sounds cool but not really necessary (especially if you have other Monstrous Creatures who can contribute their strength/smash attacks if needed) and the S9 Carnifexes are nice too...

I am not a huge fan of adrenal sacs or toxin sacs on my Monstrous Creatures as most of them are wounding on 2+ anyway so paying for extra rerolls or one more strength isn't that effective IMHO... the crushing claws I like but I'd actually prefer the rerolls to hit on misses of 1 from scything talons (as my WS on the Tervigon ain't great) cuz with my luck I'll miss with most of my attacks and the +S and poison attacks really won't matter then will they..

but, I think (again, MHO here) that if you are new to 40K and 'Nids in general (depending on what other wargaming experience you have) you may want to try a few smaller games, or smaller lists before going to town with a 2000 pt army that isn't battle tested... try some devilgaunts, tervigon, genestealers, and carnifex in smaller games and see what you think before getting 2 tervigons, 3 carnifexes, and a horde of devilgaunts you later decide you don't like... but that's just me... Josh

[patsfan32]

Thank you guys for your input, it seems what i have been hearing about hormagaunts and genestealers is true and that is kind of sad, however I also really like hive guard and zoanthropes so i can still use them. I like the idea of tervigons, though i dont care much for termagants...id love a hormigon haha. But anyway yes I am going to start with 500 point matches first, that 2k list is one id like to buy towards. my 500 list will look more like this:

== HQ ==
Tyranid Prime (1) - Devourer, Scything Talons = 80 pts.

== Elites ==
Hive Guard Brood (2) = 100 pts.

== Troops ==
Termagant Brood (10) - Devourer = 100 pts.
Tervigon (1) - Stinger Salvo, Taken As Troops = 160 pts.

== Fast Attack ==
Gargoyle Brood (10) = 60 pts.

== Total ==
500 pts.

I was thinking about maybe taking the tervigon as the HQ but im not really sure how I would want to play a low point game, I wish Hormagants werent nerfed so hard :/

[jahatch42878]

Well, first off, I think for 500 pts the Tervigon as HQ might make sense... the Tyranid Prime really shines if you have other Tyranid Warriors to buff their WS and BS... so, that would free up 80 pts and I'd be tempted to take a zoanthroape for the Synapse Creature so you can support your gargoyles better...

however, at 500 pts, a unit of genestealers (who are pretty independent) or taking some hormagaunts to run behind the gargoyles might be worth it so you can test them out as well...

do be a little careful if you don't have other synapse creatures as most players will try to focus on your tervigon so then you won't have as much control over your brood.

Taking the Prime with the Hive Guard is a pretty potent unit in small games too though, so not all bad, just not getting the buff Warriors would get otherwise (and then you do have 2 synapse on the table)...

Josh

[ranmafan]

I personally love Stealers and have been trying to work them into normal lists, but serious lists are... unfeasible.

Ok, the following things to remember:

1) First things first: If you want a serious list, determine if your primary focus is shooting or assault. Shooting is generally more effective in 6th ed.
2) At 2k points, you can double your FOC. If you're serious about the 'serious' list, you're going to abuse this to maximize your HQ/Elite slots.
3) Hive Guards, Zoanthropes in Mycetic spores (take Hive Commander if you're doing this) - Hive Guards are literally indispensable. Fill up your elite slots with 2x3 Hive Guards and 1x3 Zoanthropes in Mycetic spore, or another 1x3 Hive Guard brood.
4) Dakka Flyrants - The most 'serious' firepower you can get in the Nids codex. You can have up to 4 of them in a 2k game, but generally you can just field 2.

Now, if you want to field Genestealers then your list won't be too competitive, my suggestion is to do this: At least 2 broods of 10x Genestealers + 1 Brood Lord (toxin sacs, and the Broodlord has Scytals). At least 1x10 brood of default Gargoyles (15-20 Gargoyles if you can) to provide cover saves- Gargoyles are the same price as Hormagants but are guaranteed a 12" move range so will ALWAYS be ahead of the Genestealers, and the stock version already has Blinding Venom.

Sample 2k list:
HQ - 2x Hive Tyrants w/ Wings, 2x TL Devourers (520 pts)

Elites:
3x3 Hive Guards (450 pts)

Troops:
2x 10 Genestealers + 1 Broodlord (with scytals), Toxin Sacs - (470 pts) - Roll Biomancy for the Broodlords.
2x 10 Termagants
2x Tervigons, Catalyst, Toxin Sacs.

Fast Attack:
1x 15 Gargoyles OR (Heavy Support) - 1x 2 Biovores

Start by casting Catalyst on the Genestealers and run them towards the enemy (likely the Flyrants are out of range at this point). They have 4 major worries: the 2 Flyrants, the 2 Stealer Broods, the 2 Tervigons or the 9 Hive Guards. You'll need to keep the core blob of Tervigons, Hive Guards and Termagants together.

If Infiltrating the Stealers, take the Biovores. If running them down the table, use Gargoyles. REMEMBER: Stealers that infiltrate CAN assault the opponent IF you go second!

Always remember the wounds allocation mechanic - put the normal Stealers in front of the Broodlords. The BLs are what will melt anything they touch. ALWAYS keep them in cover until you're ready to assault the opponent.

Still, I wouldn't field Stealers or Hormagants at all in a serious list. Take my advice with a scoop of salt.

500 Point 'stealers list:
One thing I've found is that the smaller the point value the game is, the more disproportionately effective Tyranids become because they can field far more models than the opponent. This is the one situation where Genestealers vastly grow in strength. This is a variation of my old 500 point list -

HQ:
Tyranid Prime - Toxin Sacs, Regeneration, Scything Talons, Devourers

Elites:
1x 2 Hive Guards (attach the Nid Prime to these)

Troops:
2x 5 Genestealers + 1 Broodlord (w/ Scytals), Toxin sacs (300 pts, 150 pts per brood)

At this point rating you're likely to play on a small table. The advantage is that the Stealers can quickly cover the distance (or infiltrate) and get into striking range. Attaching the Nid prime to the Hive Guards and marching them up the table forces the opponent to roll against T6 instead of T5 because of the majority models rule. Use the Nid Prime as a bullet sponge while pouring fire into the enemy's high Toughness or Vehicle models.

And in a 500 point game, it's highly unlikely that ANYTHING can survive a Broodlord or two in close combat. Unless the opponent manages to field a Flyer somehow.

Sample 500 point Tervigon list:
HQ:
Tervigon (Catalyst) (175 pts)

Elites:
1x 2 Hive Guards (100 pts)

Troops:
1x 10 Termagants (50 pts)
1x Tervigon (Catalyst) (175 pts)

This is probably going to draw cries of 'Cheese!' or 'Foul!'. You're going to bring at least another 20-30 Termagants to the fight on average, maybe more if you avoid double rolls. Use Catalyst on themselves to make them uber-hard to kill.

Also - use the Tervigons to cover the Hive Guards - remember, they can just crab-crawl while using their massive bulk to protect the Hive Guards, while the Termagants provide cover saves for the Tervigons. March them all the way up the table in a blob, and only break them up to assault various enemies once in charging range.

Once in close combat, the Tervigons can Smash anything to ID them or destroy vehicles. Use the Termagants to tie up any units you don't want disturbing your Tervigons while they go to work.

Alternatively, replace catalyst with Toxin sacs (so the gants get a 4+ to wound on anything they attack) with another 10 points to spare, giving each Tervi scytals instead. It's hard to field enough heavy weapons in 500 points to effectively deal with 2 T6 W6 MCs...