What if the Shadow In the Warp affected all Ld?

[nurglitch]

So I was thinking, what if the Shadow In The Warp affected all Leadership-based tests (morale checks, psychic tests, fear tests, etc) rather than just psychic tests?

[infornography]

then it would be crazy overpowered?

[nurglitch]

That's kind of the question, isn't it? I mean, would it be over-powered? Under-powered? How would it change the Tyranid army?

[DarkGuard]

It would likely depend on the capabilities of the armies its facing. High Ld armies would still be OK, but would fail more (obviously). Fearless armies wouldn't care.

But for the most part, it would be overpowered, which is why I'm glad it doesn't do that.

About changes to the Nid army, Flyrants would pretty much be in every list, as would Trygon Primes and possible Shrikes, while Podded Zoanthropes would be more common, all to get that Shadow in front of the enemy as soon as possible. So they wouldn't change too much then.

[nurglitch]

The Telepathy Psychic Power "Terrify" means that Fearless armies do indeed care about failing leadership tests like Morale and Pinning. Even Ld10 would be failing Leadership-based tests about 50% of the time.

[DarkGuard]

I'd forgotten about that power, tells you about my meta that's basically meaningless, with all those Marines running about.

But that'd be situational, you're not guaranteed to have that power. In general, Fearless armies wouldn't care.

[nurglitch]

Non-Fearless Space Marines are still vulnerable to falling back. They can still be wiped out if they are trapped, or charged while they are falling back, or if they hit the board edge. Once they're falling back, they automatically fail any further morale tests that turn and fall back again. You can force them to move 2D6" directly towards their home board edge in all three phases, if you're lucky enough that they fail the Morale check forced by Terrify.

It's less meaningless to your gaming group than it is an opportunity for you to seize and exploit. But I admire your sporting spirit in playing by Queensbury rules.

[DarkGuard]

Queensbury rules?

The unfortunate thing about Fear is that it doesn't ignore ATSKNF. If it did, then Terrify would be good. A single Ld test on 9 is more likely to be passed than failed. Now if SoW did effect it, then it would be more devastating, but as it is now Terrify isn't good in Marine oriented environments.

[Nightmare20]

Anyone else feel like Synapse is more a weakness than boon? I remember reading somewhere that in the early editions it had more benefits but they were removed in later editions...

I would not have a problem with Shadow doing a tad more but then again I have yet to play any games. How have others found the relevance of the Shadow? How does it hold up to other psyker defences?

[halos]

Currently SitW is one of the best psychic defenses in the game, only falling behind Eldar RoW and SW runic weapons on account of it's short range.

50% chance for a Psyker to fail their test (and slightly boosted chance of causing Perils) is not to be sneered at, not least with all new powers people are starting to throw around, especically Blessings which the former go-to psychic defense (Hoods) no longer has any effect on.

SitW is already plenty powerful. If I were to suggest an increase in power it'd just be a marginal range upgrade (24" to match SW runes, or 18" to counteract the number of models with SitW Tyranids can take.)
Forcing LD checks on 3D6 is pretty broke; significant chance of pinning from Biovores, or forcing a unit to flee with Devourers. Also it'd mean there's no reason to ever take dual Boneswords on Warriors : p

For a sightly more entertaining take on SitW consider a -1Ld penalty to enemy units within range, cumulative for multiple synapse creatures. Similar in potential power to 3D6 Ld checks but requires more forethought to bring into play.

[TheContortionist]

if if's and but's where candy and nuts than we'd all have a merry christmas.

[guns]

My ideal version of SitW would have a far more widespread effect on the tabletop, likely at the expense of it's powerfulness.

The idea of the Shadow is that its presence accompanies an entire hivefleet. I don't accept the conceit of synapse creatures as "beacons" of the SitW effect. They are not generating the shadow entity, they are being broadcast TO by it. Every psyker on an afflicted planet should feel the effects, not just the ones who are going nose-to-nose with a Hive Tyrant.

I'd prefer something that effects the entire tabletop, or at least has a hefty 24"+ range. Stalwart psykers are capable of operating in spite of the shadow, so I would not at all be opposed to something like, "in order to use a psychic power within range of a SitW creature an enemy psyker must pass a Ld test at -1".

[fleetofclaw]

Jan 5, 2013 6:26:39 GMT guns said:

My ideal version of SitW would have a far more widespread effect on the tabletop, likely at the expense of it's powerfulness.

The idea of the Shadow is that its presence accompanies an entire hivefleet. I don't accept the conceit of synapse creatures as "beacons" of the SitW effect. They are not generating the shadow entity, they are being broadcast TO by it. Every psyker on an afflicted planet should feel the effects, not just the ones who are going nose-to-nose with a Hive Tyrant.

I'd prefer something that effects the entire tabletop, or at least has a hefty 24"+ range. Stalwart psykers are capable of operating in spite of the shadow, so I would not at all be opposed to something like, "in order to use a psychic power within range of a SitW creature an enemy psyker must pass a Ld test at -1".

I agree, my major gripe is its short range, consider runes of warding being table wide AND you peril on a 12+... I'm not asking for that but maybe something slightly more in line with the fluff.

Imagine double boneswords if SitW effected all Ld tests... good luck passing with 4d6!

I do like the flat -1 to non psychic Ld tests though.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using proboards

[Davor]

I am sure Runes of Warding will not be table wide in their next codex. That is the old way. Since the Eldar codex is old, it goes both ways. Doesn't get the new updated rules but gets to keep the old rules as they use to work.

I agree with Guns. How can SitW effect an entire planet and can't send for help, But on the battlefield if you are more than 12 feet away, it doesn't effect anyone.

That is one thing I hate as well. Never thought of the term BEACON, but that is basically how SitW works. Goes agaisnt the fluff so much.

Yes I know fluff doesn't equal rules, but it shouldn't also equal making Space Marines lives easier.

[lordbob]

I suppose the thought (giving cruddace...or as he is known in our club *shaking fist in the air* Crrrrruddace!!!...the benefit of the doubt) is that you get a lot more models with SitW than you do runes of warding; the thought being that you can get a good coverage of the board without losing your psychic defense if one of your models die. Whereas runes of warding is one, maybe two, low toughness models.

I think SitW should be longer range, because in reality you don't get that coverage until later in the game, or perhaps being able to take a leadership test with a synapse creature in order to extend it for the turn.