1500 - beginner's list no Tervigon

[skraaj]

Hi, I'm quite new to wh40k and Tyranid Swarm so I'm in much need of any assistance with my army list, the only model I really dislike is Tervigon/Tyrranofex so I would like to play without it if possible. It's also my first post here so hi to all! Here's something that I came up after a few battles:


1 Hive Tyrant (HQ) @ 315 Pts
Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Bonded Exoskeleton; Wings;
Stranglethorn Cannon; TL Devourer w/Worms (x1); Hive Commander; Old
Adversary

2 Zoanthrope Brood (Elites) @ 160 Pts
#Warp Blast; #Warp Lance; Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature
1 Mycetic Spore @ [40] Pts
Lash Whip; Ripper Tentacles

5 Tyranid Warrior Brood (Troops) @ 220 Pts
Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Scything Talons; Deathspitter
1 Tyranid Warrior @ [45] Pts
Scything Talons; Venom Cannon

20 Hormagaunt Brood (Troops) @ 120 Pts
Bounding Leap; Scything Talons

19 Termagant Brood (Troops) @ 245 Pts
Devourer
1 Mycetic Spore @ [55] Pts
Lash Whip; Ripper Tentacles; Barbed Strangler

1 Trygon Prime (Heavy Support) @ 240 Pts
Synapse Creature; Shadow in the Warp; Subterranean Assault; Scything
Talons (x2); Bio-electric w/Containment

1 Carnifex (Heavy Support) @ 200 Pts
Living Battering Ram; Heavy Venom Cannon; TL Devourer w/Worms (x1)

Models in Army: 52


Total Army Cost: 1500

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I'm also thinking of getting rid of Old Adversary and switching carnifex for another Trygon or maybe even Mawlock since it actually can kill a few Terminators when digging out. And also I'm thinking about TL Devourers on flyrant - that I need to decide quickly before painting I really like warriors and genestealers, but the latter have never even made within charge distance so I'm cutting them off...



Any comments are welcome.

[Illithid]

A few pointers:

1) Lost the Stanglethorn Canon off the Hive Tyrant - take either 2x T/L Devourer instead as they perform much better or LW/BS. I also would lose Old Adversary as you will not really need it and most likely be further than 6" away.

2) Take Ymgarls instead of regular stealers. They perform much better, you can pick where they are hidden after both deployments and they move and assault the turn they arrive.

3) You are very light on troops.

4) The second Trygon would work better than the Mawloc. A single Mawloc normally only strikes 2-3 times per game.


My questions are, what models are starting on the board Turn 1?

I ask because, you may only have two-three things on the board and if I was the enemy, I would target those and clear them off the board. 500-700pts on the board does not last long facing a full 1500pts - a few bad rolls for reserves and it could go pear shape extremely fast.

[skraaj]

1) LS/BS is in my opinion useless because as MC I ignore ASv and I wouldn't assault anything that I have to kill before it strikes me so 2x T/L Devourer it is. With OA you're right, I've forgot that T/L weapons already grant me a To Hit re-roll and Penetration do not count as Wounding - my bad.

2) Ymgarls are really expensive with 23pts, but since they can assault it could be worth a try after all, but can they be revealed whenever I want or do I have to reveal them when they are available from reserves? A 2+ roll is most likely to guarantee a 2nd turn availability.

3) 3 units is too little? Two bigger units and 6 warriors should be enough to hold an objective I think?

4) With 2-3 strikes I should be able to kill 8-12 marines if those would be terminators it would be more than enough to cover the cost of Mawloc. And it would cripple those annoying squads. And I could throw a tank or two out of their place? Isn't it worth the 170pts?

Zoantropes, Termagants and Trygon/Mawloc's would Deep Strike and rest would be deployed normally. Zoantropes DS in range for destroying a Monolith or other high valuable tank, Trygon DS somewhere where he would be definitely a target for an assault and would survive shooting and Termagants DS near something valuable that could be killed with just a statistic. Flyrant, Warriors and Hormagaunts press forward, well they would be an easy pick I have no idea how to protect them, I'll either start with most forces deployed and let my opponent pick the targets for shooting or I deep strike half of the the army. Either way I'm at a disadvantage. I wanted an evil army for 40k (as opposed to playing 15 years with good/neutral armies in WFB) and got stuck with something that I have no idea how to play with.

[Anggul]

It really isn't worth the 170pts for the Mawloc. Chances are you're going to scatter off anyway and not kill a whole lot each game. You might get a direct hit, but even that probably won't kill a huge amount. Also one thing you need to learn is that gaunts tend to die in droves, you can't take the same number of them as other troops and expect them to survive and do much. Most armies could wipe out your troops pretty easily, that's why we need to take so many. The Warriors are pretty tough, but gaunts not so much.

Otherwise, seems like a pretty strong list. Try to get yourself a third Zoanthrope for reliability and continued survival, and drop the Heavy Venom Cannon for another pair of Devourers, HVCs were okay in 5th, but pretty poor in 6th.

[jhussey]

It's all pretty much been said, but it's worth repeating. Your HQ is too expensive, drop OA and the Stranglethorn cannon. Use the point to add more gaunts. Your warriors are tough, but I run them in 6's. Honestly my warriors out number my gaunts (or they used too, haven't tried 6th yet) and it seems to work really well, just be prepared for them to take alot of shots. I like Mawlocks but Trygons are a more well rounded choice. Yes the Mawlock can really pack a punch when it bursts through the ground, and it gives Raveners a place to spawn to (but I dont deep strike them anyway...) but I never have good luck with Deepstriking, I always end up way off course. Over all though the list is solid. I did go back over my old list and I noticed one thing, but it may just be me. In a 1500 point game I had an average of 75 models...

[jhussey]

I wanted to say one more thing: Alot of the tactics and things you will read on the forums are tried and true methods that's why people use them and post them, but you can find success in alot of different places. Try certain set ups and tactics, maybe you'll find a way that works that no one else has. If you sit down and play a game of 40k or work on your minis and it begins to feel like work and not entertainment, you're trying way too hard. We all want to win, but play your army how you want and build it your way. Who knows maybe in six months we'll be talking about your tactics and lists!

[Illithid]

Jan 3, 2013 12:44:08 GMT skraaj said:

1) LS/BS is in my opinion useless because as MC I ignore ASv and I wouldn't assault anything that I have to kill before it strikes me so 2x T/L Devourer it is.

2) Ymgarls are really expensive with 23pts, but since they can assault it could be worth a try after all, but can they be revealed whenever I want or do I have to reveal them when they are available from reserves? A 2+ roll is most likely to guarantee a 2nd turn availability.

3) 3 units is too little? Two bigger units and 6 warriors should be enough to hold an objective I think?

4) With 2-3 strikes I should be able to kill 8-12 marines if those would be terminators it would be more than enough to cover the cost of Mawloc. And it would cripple those annoying squads. And I could throw a tank or two out of their place? Isn't it worth the 170pts?

Zoantropes, Termagants and Trygon/Mawloc's would Deep Strike and rest would be deployed normally. Zoantropes DS in range for destroying a Monolith or other high valuable tank, Trygon DS somewhere where he would be definitely a target for an assault and would survive shooting and Termagants DS near something valuable that could be killed with just a statistic. Flyrant, Warriors and Hormagaunts press forward, well they would be an easy pick I have no idea how to protect them, I'll either start with most forces deployed and let my opponent pick the targets for shooting or I deep strike half of the the army. Either way I'm at a disadvantage. I wanted an evil army for 40k (as opposed to playing 15 years with good/neutral armies in WFB) and got stuck with something that I have no idea how to play with.

1) The beauty of them is that they reduce a unit to Initiative 1 and have the chance to auto-kill with Boneswords. It adds more versatility to your units.

2) Yes Ymgarls are expensive, but you are paying for a unit that can deploy in any of your opponents terrain pieces, pop up normally in Turn 2, Move on the turn they deploy and assault on the turn they deploy. They also can adjust their Toughness to 5 for the initial charge into combat. They are great back-line heavy weapon destroyers.

3) Yes - 5 out of 6 games are objective based. Considering your Hormagaunts are not going to be attempting to hold an objective and rushing into combat. They most likely will be destroyed also as in this edition they are canon fodder. Secondly, the termagants are deep striking and could land nowhere near synapse or an objective. They could also lurk in a ruin and you will need a synapse creature to go and get them.

4) What are you using to shield those Shrikes with? Gargoyles compliment Shrikes well, but again, if I was the enemy and saw them flying up the board, I would hit them with a couple Str 8 hits and a few bolters and suddenly there are no more Shrikes.

Tyranids are about synergy and how units work together. Right now, looking at your tactics, I see the warriors being hit hard Turn one with maybe a few instant kills on them. This is why I was saying your troops are light - the list is not terrible, but you will have an uphill battle every game.

[skraaj]

New try, but this time I need to cut off one DS'ing unit, 5 out of 8 start in reserves which from I was told is too much. And again I have no idea what to do about the troops without the Tervigon. I can swap warriors for two units of gaunts but they are more susceptible to blasts and even bolters... I could swap Termagaunts with Devourers in Spore for 2x20 Termagaunts w/ Fleshbolters. It's exactly 1500 and 77 models.

1 Hive Tyrant (HQ) @ 285 Pts
Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Bonded Exoskeleton; Wings; TL
Devourer w/Worms (x2); Hive Commander

2 Zoanthrope Brood (Elites) @ 160 Pts
#Warp Blast; #Warp Lance; Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature
1 Mycetic Spore
Lash Whip; Ripper Tentacles

5 Ymgarl Genestealer Brood (Elites) @ 115 Pts
Alter Form; Dormant; Rending Claws

5 Tyranid Warrior Brood (Troops) @ 220 Pts
Shadow in the Warp; Synapse Creature; Scything Talons; Deathspitter
1 Tyranid Warrior
Scything Talons; Venom Cannon

20 Hormagaunt Brood (Troops) @ 120 Pts
Bounding Leap; Scything Talons

14 Termagant Brood (Troops) @ 195 Pts
Devourer
1 Mycetic Spore
Lash Whip; Ripper Tentacles; Barbed Strangler

1 Trygon (Heavy Support) @ 200 Pts
Instinctive Behavior - Feed; Subterranean Assault; Scything Talons (x2);
Bio-electric Pulse

1 Trygon (Heavy Support) @ 200 Pts
Instinctive Behavior - Feed; Subterranean Assault; Scything Talons (x2);
Bio-electric Pulse

Models in Army: 52
Total Army Cost: 1495