Questions on Gargoyles

[pipsickness]

Greetings Hive.

I've decided to take the advise given on the army list side of things and look into getting more gargoyles however I've never really used them in a battle and honestly don't really know what to do with them or how to kit them out!

What are peoples thoughts?

On a seperate not.... I see in a lot of the battle reps and tactics discussions that people use the 'goyles to "screen" other units.... what does this mean and how does it work within the rules (6th ed)?

Thanks!!

Pip

[milkybarnid]

Gargoyles are one of our better units i think, their special rule allows them on a certain number to wound automatically, and can take AG and TS cheaply, it dpeneds on what you want them to do, if screening dont bother with upgrades, if going after MCs, take TS, the amount of attacks will force opponenets to fail saves through weight of numbers. AG is wasted unless their going very light vehicle hunting (rhinos etc)

To me, they are excellant, however due to their size and annoying bases i hardly use them as they are difficult to transport and move, otherwise o would be takning them a lot more.

Screen is where you use a brood to provide cover for another, more vaulable unit, for exmaple a 10 man gargoyle squad will advance in front of a squad of 20 hormies with toxin sacs.

[gigasnail]

ag + ts gets you rerolls to wound vs T4.

[WestRider]

Not to repeat too much, there's some pretty good discussion here and here.

That said, there are basically two ways to use them:
1) Take a small Brood, 13-15 with no upgrades, and use them as a Screen. Spread them out in front of the rest of your Army and they'll provide Cover Saves as Intervening Models (Main Rulebook, Pg.18), and get in the way of enemy Units that are trying to Assault yours. If you take too few, they give up First Blood really easily, and don't do their job for long enough.
2) Take a larger Brood, 15-20, and give them at least Adrenal Glands, and preferably both upgrades. This is an actual Combat Unit, useful against most basic Infantry, as well as Vehicles with rear AV10. Do note that it's still a fairly cheap and low-level Assault Unit. It can usually take on small Troops Units and such, but it's simply not a large enough concentration of force to take on big or tough Units alone. You can still run it to screen part of your Army, but if you try to use it as a full Screen, they'll tend to get shot up to the point where they're ineffective, so it's best to keep them a bit more off to one side.

[infornography]

Keep in mind, if you take Toxin Sacs, then you should probably also take Adrenal Glands if you are facing T4 enemies a lot as that will allow you to re-roll your wounds against them on the charge. Though naked they are still quite effective and they auto-wound on 6s as it is. I would recommend taking a decently large brood and spreading it out to give your army maximum coverage from the enemy. Keep them in front of your forces until you get within striking distance, then hit them with a volley of fleshborer shots, then Hammer of wrath, then 2 attacks per still living model. If you have enough of them, they can drop just about anything that isn't a vehicle.

[WestRider]

I would always take Adrenal Glands if giving them any upgrades. Blinding Venom does part of the job of Toxin Sacs (letting them Wound anything with a Toughness Value), so those don't really expand the list of things they can potentially damage. But Adrenal Glands let them be a substantial threat to Vehicles with Rear AV10 as long as there are at least a half-dozen or so left.

[retnab]

I just had a thought that I hope isn't right. If you do get your Hammer of Wrath, does that count as your charging attack or do you still get 2 on the charge and the potential for HoW on gargoyles?

[fragile]

The HoW is a bonus attack, you still get your normal attacks on the charge.

[retnab]

Dec 12, 2012 20:12:08 GMT fragile said:

The HoW is a bonus attack, you still get your normal attacks on the charge.

Phew, okay thanks! ;D

[coredump]

This is based on 168 pt broods, to make the numbers easier. I don't think I would run them quite that large, but...

vanilla: 28 gargs: 5.19 dead marines
TS: 24 gargs: 5.33 dead marines (but same against T5+)
AG: 24 gargs: 5.33 dead marines (but can damage rear AV10 vehicles)
TS/AG: 21 gargs: 5.83 dead marines

(Also does not count HoW attacks, since I never seem to get those...)

Just remember, the more expensive, the more it hurts to lose models.
I prefer TS/AG, but never as a simple screen.

[WestRider]

Dec 12, 2012 21:02:20 GMT retnab said:

Dec 12, 2012 20:12:08 GMT fragile said:

The HoW is a bonus attack, you still get your normal attacks on the charge.

Phew, okay thanks! ;D

Do note, tho, that HoW doesn't make use of any special Rules a Model might have. No Blinding Venom, Poison, or Furious Charge on those Attacks.

Also note that it only works if you moved as Infantry during the Movement Phase. You can only use your "Jump Pack" in one Phase per Turn