Build Me A List

[kirchoff]

Hi,
I will be going to my local game store with some friends on December 15 and play a game of Warhammer 40k 1500 pts.
I have been playing against some of these players alot and I win 90 percent of time and I mostly wind up tabling them. I am very good at making lists with what I have and winning but I would like to switch it up a bit and try building a list from another persons perspective and give it a go. Post below how any of you would build a list out of what I have and I'll pick the one that is different from what I have already tried.

Here is what I have:
1 hive tyrant w/ TL devourers, H venom cannon
(I Can convert to Swarmlord instead with boneswords)
1 Tyranid Prime w/deathspitter, lashwhip bonesword
1 Tyrant Guard
1 Tervigon
2 Zoanthropes
1 Doom of Malantai
3 Hive guard
3 Warriors w/deathspitters, scything talons
30 hormagants
20 termagaunts
20 devilgaunts (termagaunts with devourers)
24 genestealers
2 brloodlords
5 Skyslasher swarms
3 raveners
2 biovores
12 Spore Mines
6 Good sized homemade mycetic spores made from plastic pineapples.

My opponent would likely be a space marine player with a good amount of armour on the table or a necron player. Lots of marine players around here.

[nidzy]

Folks don't generally get a great response here when they ask us to write their list for them. Post a list of your own and ask for opinions! Nice to know what you have though.

[Lanesend]

Why don't you post this winning list(s) and we'll see if we can change it around for you.

[Deleted]

If you're winning so much and so strongly, build the worst list you possibly can and challenge yourself

[Deadlink]

^ What 60mm said. If you want a challenge let your opponent maek the list.

No seriously, legit that would make a really hard game for your tactical genius.


Ma 2 cents

deadlink97~

[lordofthebrood]

If you let the opponent make the list you will end up with an army of gaunts, rippers and raveners that have every single possible upgrade available.

Spore mines too.

[Lanesend]

Well, he DID ask for a challenge.

[daffan666]

I would love to read a working tactic/battle report including:
parasite of mortrex
genestealers
rippers (normal and/or sky-slashers)
warriors
swarmlord
lictor/deathleaper
mawloc
old one eye?
pyrovore

Maybe something from FW aswell?
malanthrope
meiotic spore (if there allowed in normal 40k)
spore chimney infestation?

[Deleted]

Meiotic Spores are 40k approved but are also pretty effective vs SM so no Meiotic for OP haha.

[kirchoff]

So far, I have built a shooty list, a close combat list, and a mycetic spore list and the one that did the best was the mycetic spore list and the spores did half the work killin stuff lol. The tactic that I had was that the only units I had on the board were T6 (hive tyrant, tervigon, hive guard) and I spored everything else. Sporing devilgants seem to be the most efficient, while the genestealers seem to draw alot of attention and never get to kill anything, especially when overwatch and random charge ranges are in effect. From my experience, swarm your opponent with cheaper swarms and take out his armor with monstrous creatures and at range with hive guard.

Knowing this, I will make a hybrid army with all my more efficient tactics and units.

Hive Tyrant w/TL devourers, H venom cannon, armoured shell, hive commander
Prime w/laswhipbonesword, deathspitter
3 hive guard
2 zoanthropes
doom of malantai w/spore
Tervigon w/scything talons, TS, AG
10 Devilgaunts w/spore
10 Devilgaunts w/spore
15 hormagants w/ts
15 hormagants w/ts

This should be 1500 points for you guys to go by. So, let me know what changes you guys would make. I'll post up a small battle report on this Sunday.
(also, I would give the Hive tyrant another set of TL devourers but I don't have another set and I would like to keep it WYSIWYG)

As for daffan66 post, I have built a list around the swarmlord once and it is worth taking in 6th edition. Take CC units with lots of numbers in each to benefit from the swarmlords buffs and remember, the swarmlord is a support guy, not a tank, nor is he the spearhead of your army. PROTECT HIM.
I also used old one eye, totally not worth taking whatsoever. Converted him into a Tervigon.
Deathleaper is also a waste of points, I am currently converting my red terror which use to be my deathleaper into a harpy.
However, if you're looking to see a battle report with all of the above that you listed in the same army, it will never happen lol.

As for challenging my opponent to make my list for me, we are doing that Dec 25. We will be making each others lists at 1000 pts.

[biorivera]

How did the spores do half the work killing stuff? =X Their guns scatter and are unreliable- you must have rolled blessed dice and your opponents must have rolled unfathomably badly(unless you meant the things in the spores).

Those devilgaunt squads are small....I would expect those to last MAYBE one round of shooting against MeQ(marine equivalent models- statwise). Not to mention 10 is still only 30 shots, whittling down whats missed and post wound and you could very well not cause a single wound to a marine. At most like 2-3 on a good turn of shooting- and I've had squads of 20 devilgaunts literally cause no damage(not often but it happens).

Maybe this is my opinion, but hormagaunts are lol. I keep looking at your list and going- wow your opponent must not like heavy bolters(or any anti-mass troop weapons) and/or are building their lists really badly. Hgaunts have a weak T, and frankly their toxin sacs while borderline necessary to make these guys good make them cost more than they're worth imo. If you want something like them, go gargoyles. Better mobility, special rules.

The tyrant is ok in my book. Nothing special, about what I'd expect from a ranged support tyrant. 6th vehicle damage changes made him better afterall- but I feel like devil-flyrant is the way to go if you face fliers- afterall its what our army most struggles with based off our lack of skyfire. Might just be me leaning on a crutch, though I feel like too many games I see multiple fliers up my tail and its a huge help dropping one or two through sheer mass of fire(granted flyrant is less survivable slightly than walking tank-rant). Also there's a big range discrepancy between those two weapons- I think in your shoes I'd trade the brainleech devs for bonesword+LW(for the defensive applications of the LW) just because I'm not sure exactly what your plan is with that HT? Is it a slow advancing gun platform? Because the HVC to me highlights it as a vehicle staller/damager but the devs are pretty much solely anti-troops since the flyrant is grounded.

Also the swarmlord not being a spearhead unit- sorry what? With 2 psychic powers per turn usable, and able to trade in 4 powers for biomancy powers you can fairly reasonably expect to get either a huge T/S bonus(iron arm), or ID protection as well as other awesome special rules. And Enfeeble and warp speed aren't shabby either. Sure you don't want to throw him at something that WILL ID him if he doesn't have ID protection but that just changes his use somewhat. Knowing your opponents units is a HUGE part of this game- if you don't know what a character is capable of then frankly yes charging your swarmlord into things blindly will probably get it killed. He can however without question be played in a more support based role.

The DoM is a no brainer. Find me a better deal points-wise and I may have safe real estate in Manhattan to sell you dirt cheap. I often try not taking it cause it makes me feel dirty(may be the same reason you chose not to run a flyrant)

Hive guard are undeniably good(only shortcoming is range really- which isn't awful really).

Zoans, are mixed results. Their shooting is so bad from a math-accuracy standpoint and often will literally do nothing in games. Psyker platforms they're OK, not sure I'd use points on them as psyker platforms. They do make fairly resilient synapse though and tend to divert fire from other things.


I'm assuming your tervi is running as a troop. You may want to consider making him a psyker platform but thats upto you.

I'd argue decent Parasite lists exist(we saw one do well at a tourney fairly recently), but anyone who expected you to cram all that in a single list and be competitive is being unrealistic.

I'd mostly agree about deathleaper- mainly because he's too expensive. Special rules aren't bad but for that much???

I'm not sure what your opponent is playing, but if his lists are anything like yours and he plays something like chaos, two squads of havocs would really mess your day up imo- and for much less points than what they'll kill.


The Hgaunts wont get AG from the tervi and like gaunts are squishy- the tervi is squisy compared to a biomancy bombing tervi, you lack AA, beyond that I can't say I have any real "criticisms".

You do the prime tactic, I'm guessing either in marching gaunts or with the tyrant for LoS! rolls. Harder to make this guy as good as he was imo, since wound allocation doesn't give you all the cool tricks it used to. And challenges + lack of ID protection could be fatal(though unlikely he wouldnt dice a powerfist before it got him).

I'm not saying your list is bad- I just think that if you're winning "90%" of the time with a list like the one you posted it speaks more about your opponents and less about you(because having played with multiple codex's, I can tell you from a DE/SW/IG/CSM perspective how I would attempt picking that list apart- even with general non-tailored tourney-esque lists).

I think more than anything your comments made me curious about what your opponents play(what kind of SM?), how well, and what sort of lists they run, what kind of things? I'm not saying tailor a list against theirs, but from my vantage you seem to have come up with very black and white conclusions about winning lists which in my eyes differ than most of the more successful nid lists I've played or even seen linked on this forum. My position is fairly clear cut as well on units, possibly incorrectly so, which is why I ask.

Also what do your tables generally look like terrainwise? Like do you guys play on a table where you can plop your HG in a building and not worry about them the whole game(I call those tables something too inappropriate for this forum lol- no table should exist like that impo)? Cause very little of the terrain I play on provides real cover or blocks LoS completely.

If you are winning with lists like these please do post up a battle-rep for us, and I mean that as sincerely as possible as someone who wants to learn how you're maximizing your hgaunt effectiveness(primarily, among other things).

[kirchoff]

Wow, biorivera I don't know where to start. Lets just say that we don't have much in the way of competitive players in my area. But, most of my games have been against 3 people that I know that do know what they are doing and have played since 2nd and 3rd edition. However, 2 play vanilla space marines, which are not as good as what they use to be, and one plays dark angels. One always has a good all around mix of stuff and the other likes to dreadnought spam (he doesn't bring more than 2 or 3 nowadays since 6th edition came out). I always come out on top though with what I have in many variations. Tyranids are much better than what people give them credit for and I am able to do just fine without a flyrant, hive guard spam, tervigon spam, or using trygons. If I had the budget then I would definitely have a flyrant and so forth.

As far as AA goes, nobody around here has air. So I have no experience with the matter.

The spores however always pay for themselves. They put my troops where I need them and I get lots of good rear shots on vehicles and walkers, well half the time when I don't scatter away. Lets just say that a 40-50 point spore taking out a 135 point dreadnought or atleast crippling one happens quite often.

The Tervigon, I normally do make him a psyker platform, I just made a list in 2 minutes and forgot to include the upgrades in the list.

Never played against havocs. Don't even know what they do.

Terrain, we have some really nice looking terrain and most of which are sold by games workshop. Nothing of note that is rediculously big and blocks all kinds of line of sight. We cover atleast 30 percent of the table and some are craters that hardly block line of sight at all.

Never seen or heard of a parasite list, can't give any response to that.

Does my opponent have heavy bolters? YES, the people that played against me multiple times always tailor against me and bring heavy bolters and assault cannons. Otherwise, they facepalm themselves for bringing one single list with meltaguns. Heavy bolter guys are normally my #1 target and must die. This is where my devilgants in a spore come in. I come in at an angle that his heavy bolter guys would be closest to the shooting and die first. Really simple and effective even if it is 2 or 3 marines that die at most with super awesome shooting.

The Hgants are in their own way worth their points but I did not say they were super awesome. Much of the games I play they are ignored and wind up paying for themselves.

The Zoanthropes. By my estimates, they either pay for themselves twice over or do nothing at all. It's a 50/50. Really have to play smart with them.

The swarmlord. The way I run a list with him is that I fill the table with so many other threats that are gonna be tearing your face off on turn 2 that he gets ignored. The other way to run him in my opinion is in a deathstar then he can be the spearhead. He is too expensive to lose or not have protected since he can't have a 2+ armour save.

I do use the prime tactic, if I'm reading your mind right. He's ussually there to keep my big guys alive longer.

I will say this though, the marine players I mentioned above always seem to make the same mistake over and over. They always deploy so dang close to the edge of their deployment zones. Which means that it is common for my raveners, or even my hormagants to charge on turn 2.

I know that if I did play some real competitive players with super awesome armies that are tailored to go aginst a hoard army then I will be screwed. Around here, we mostly play for fun and as it turns out, tyranids are doing well and I'm the only tyranid player. I didn't expect to have to explain every detail but here you go.

[biorivera]

That clarifies things for me immensely.

You make more than fair points. I just really need a lot of detail, because for me list building starts wayyyyy before I even schedule a game. Knowing your table and opponent can be key- and as such I generally have 1-3 deployment ideas in my head for a given list before I even really see terrain drop(obviously plans are subject to minor change).

Sorry that I was(changed from "if I seemed" after re-reading my last post) condescending, I think me along with some of the other players(but mostly me) interpreted your initial post as having a high amount of hubris. Knowing the detail however, I apologize for any harshness I may have conveyed.

That being said with the terrain thing, my terrain is also all GW =P i just chose not to build all my buildings as mostly complete fortified positions(though I don't own any of the gigantic GW terrain because I'd probably build those like the cathedral as instructions designate) because in my mind by the time two armies "face off" en mass at a field of battle- the battlesite has probably already been ravaged and riddled with holes by early scouts(especially in a tyranid invasion). Lotsa badly damaged ruins.

And I agree! 6th edition actually pulled tyranids from the depths of mediocrity in 5th to an army that can actually be run competitively!

And I feel for your marine opponents, when I started playing back in 4th edition(with nids) I struggled on a laughable level with deployment and not getting torn to pieces before I reached the assault line(until I started eating cheese and running zilla lists due to a slight tourney romance I had briefly- frankly if you ran zilla skill was beneficial but optional). For both your sakes- I would suggest taking time after games to, in a friendly manner, highlight what you would have done diff in your opponents shoes(and visa versa)- this helped me improve my game SO MUCH- and the poor mahreenz would probably appreciate a nice sit down with the hive tyrant so he can explain to them how not to get eated. And as not to get it twisted, I say for both your sakes because if you're tabling your opponents as often as i think was implied then you'd probably learn how to get even better at the game by kicking up your opponents game(via giving advice).

[kirchoff]

It is kinda hard to try to get better when my opponents are either new to playing against tyranids or are not taking my advice. I always tell them to deploy further back but they never heed my words. The new players do though, but not the more experience ones. Another thing too, we only play once every 2 weeks and every other time we play is at the local game store in which I have to drive 25 min to get to. We don't get enough practice to really start playing competitively and have epic games. We are however trying to bring warhammer 40k back to life in this area and my friend is the 'kingpin' that brings us all together. In 6 months we go from having 3 players to having 10 players on our contact list in the area and we usually have 6 people show up for our monthly local game store 40k that we schedule ourselves. Soon we will have tournaments, which means battle reports and painting competitions.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that when rolling for biomancy, their is a chance to get enfleeble which works great for toxin Hgaunts. If I don't get iron arm, enfleeble will work for the little guys. This is my strategy for the Hgaunts. That, or having a swarmlord give them furious charge. All this points to giving them the ability to wound on 4+ and rerolling which increases their effectiveness twice over without spending extra points for adrenal glands.

[kirchoff]

thetyranidhive.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=41711&page=1#712411
Here is the link to the battle report from the 15th. I changed the list a bit, somebody wanted to see some skyslashers in action.