Ultimate allcomers/deployment options?

[roxor08]

Hi guys, another idea I had for a list that stems off of being able to deploy multiple ways as I may see fit. It's also got great target saturation and I'd like to hear how you think it'll fair.

HQ
Flyrant w/ Hive commander dual BL-Devourers
Flyrant w/ Old Adversary dual BL-Devourers

Elite
3 Hive guard

Troops
20 devilgants in spore w/tl deathspitters
Tervigon w/ all three psychic powers, crushing claws, toxin sacs, stinger salvo

Fast Attack
20 Gargoyles

Heavy Support
3 Biovores
Trygon
Trygon

Total: 1850

Biggest downside I see with this list is the lack of troops, but I think that this is more or less a wipe out list...Any lists you think it'd do poorly against? Any lists you think it'd excel against?

Comments and criticism welcomed thanks!

[lordofthebrood]

Definitely the lack of troops. However, you have so much nasty stuff on the board (the flyrants, trygons and tervigon) that unless you're playing objectives against an experienced player, you'll probably kick ass. I've never been a fan of biovores, but they should work well with the fast paced synergy there, as everything you're against condenses together, before you bring out the large blast templates...

It's seems a bit of a shame to waste 25 pts on Hive Commander with only one deep-striking unit... (Unless you're doing it with the trygons, in which case it's fine).

[Jabberwocky]

Presumably you want to be able to outflank the Terv as well.

Remember though, only half your army can reserve (not counting those which must). This means you will always have a couple of MCs on the board. By reserving only half, you seriously reduce target saturation and let shooty lists focus you down.

[roxor08]

I think though that that's the beauty of this list! I can start with everything on the board or some things or not very much! Any opponent couldn't know exactly how my deployment works.

I agree there are potential problems but I think the sheer synergy and target saturation (or potential saturation) gives me an edge.

Definately DE lists could cause problems, but I can task the flyrants to deal with them.

Biovores will be regularly ignored until they start raining hell, and with the big scaries, hive guard well likely be low on priority.

Again let me know what would be my worst matchups and I'd like to play test.

Thanks!

[Jabberwocky]

DE is probably going to be the worst. They won't have trouble bringing down the Terv, which then leaves 1 squad of devilgants (probably out of synapse) to break and/or mop up.

Whether you deepstrike or not won't make a huge difference with the Trygons and Flyrants. Reserving the Terv might even be best to preserve your troops until you can reduce his firepower.

Longfang spam would also force you to reserve the Terv, meaning they can focus down the Trygons.

I think those would be your worst two, plus maybe necrons if it's flyer spam.

[roxor08]

Would you consider reserving everything but the flyrants, biovores, and hiveguard? Any sort of heavy gunfire like that worud be wasted on flyrants before,if I can get the flyrants to swoop right away...hive guard and biovoes are in cover so not ideal targets and usually first turn there's a chance of night fighting. Turn 2 everything else should arrive from reserves.

Idk I'm looking at worst case scenario too. Like you said they'd take out my troops then I have to play for wipe which isn't easy against DE.

Another afterthought is...to make sure flyants survive first turn, the gargs can be deployed in front for a cover save.

[roxor08]

I think I intend to run this list for the next few weeks withm multiple matchups. I'll keep everyone posted!

[Jabberwocky]

The Flyrant should be fine if, as you say, you can get him flying. If you go 2nd or the opponent steals the initiative, you might be seriously crippled unless you can hide behind terrain.

Don't be afraid you start the Flyrant in a corner of the board if you have to, to reduce the number of guns hitting him turn 1.

[roxor08]

I've also been thinking about an alternative to list 1. What do you think about this one? I'll discuss differences between them at the end.

LIST 2

HQ
Fyrant w/ Hive commander + dual BL-Devs

Elites
3 Hive guard
3 Hive guard

Troops
10 Genestealers w/TS and Broodlord w/ IA
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
Tervigon w/ TS + all three powers and Stinger salvo
Tervigon w/ TS + all three powers and Stinger salvo

Heavy Support
3 Biovores
Trygon
Trygon

1850

Largest difference between these two is the reduction of each individual unit being a power unit on its own, but with the addition of the 2nd tervigon + genestealers I've gained additional scoring units but haven't lost the deployment options. I can still outflank/infiltrate the 'stealers, and still outflank 1 tervigon. 'Stealers+BL can go IC hunting (because of Implant attack) and yet be a unit that has great flexibility and the 2nd tervigon can fulfill another support roll and claim objectives.

My main concern with list 1 is the lack of inherent scoring units. I fix that with list 2. On the flip side, my main concern with list 2 is it's ability for each unit to act individually (more or less...I'm not saying that I would let each unit just do it's thing but late game when units get thinned out is where my concern is heightened...)

Moreover, with list 2, target saturation has be greatly reduced because what I assume are major priorities on a target list (Flyrant and Gargoyles) and even though a Tervigon has been added, often times (in my mind thinking aloud as an opponents') a Tervigon is slow to the battle lines and can be dealt with in the endgame.

What are your thoughts?

[Jabberwocky]

New list is looking a lot more standard, though still has some good options.

Personally I'm enjoying stealers, so give them a try and see how it goes.

You definitely have scoring covered.

[swarmy]

Flyrants coupled with devourer gants is pretty strong as I've come to find out lately. I would swap out at least one trygon out of the first list and move points around to spread those gants over more spores. I ran 3 spores of 15 in a tournament this past weekend and they were extremely effective; they averaged 9-15 wounds dealt on arrival. The catch is you have to zoom your flyrants around to babysit them; though it's not too bad with the movement range. It's great to get turn 2 overwhelming target saturation if you can spore a large chunk of your troop detachment. Tervigon is nice to get a lump of biomass pushing up the back on your side as well but I don't like dumping so many points in it. I would just take and keep catalyst for reliable FnP and not trade out the long synapse range. Also a single trygon prime deep striking in would help with the synapse situation and add some more effective fire to the fight. Here's a little suggestion list; It's still fairly close to what you had going with a few changes.

== HQ ==
Hive Tyrant (1) - Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Wings, Paroxysm, Leech Essence, Hive Commander = 285 pts.
Hive Tyrant (1) - Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Twin-Linked Devourer - Brainleech Worms, Wings, Paroxysm, Leech Essence = 260 pts.

== Elites ==
Hive Guard Brood (3) = 150 pts.

== Troops ==
Tervigon (1) - Scything Talons, Stinger Salvo, AG, Toxin Sacs, Cat = 200 pts.
Termagant Brood (230 pts.)
Termagant (18) - Devourer = 180 pts.
Mycetic Spore (1) - Twin-Linked Deathspitter = 50 pts.
Termagant Brood (230 pts.)
Termagant (18) - Devourer = 180 pts.
Mycetic Spore (1) - Twin-Linked Deathspitter = 50 pts.

== Fast Attack ==
Gargoyle Brood (20) = 120 pts.

== Heavy Support ==
Biovore Brood (3) = 135 pts.
Trygon Prime (1) - Containment Spines, Synapse Creature, Shadow In The Warp = 240 pts.

== Total ==
1850 pts.

[roxor08]

I like the suggestions so far and I think what I would be lacking in most of these lists is a way to deal with Meqs effectively. With that in mind I want to throw out this list, which maintains my flexible deployment, keeps my scoring units strong, but doesn't detract from the overall idea...

HQ
Flyrant w/ TL-Devs, and I would like OA but I think Hive commander would be most effective

Elite
3 Hive guard

Troops
10 Genestealers w/ TS and Broodlord w/ IA and TS
10 Genestealers w/ TS and Broodlord w/ IA and TS
10 Termagants
15 Termagants
Tervigon w/ TS, all three psychic powers, crushing claws, stinger salvo
Tervigon w/ TS, all three psychic powers, crushing claws, stinger salvo

Fast attack
18 Gargoyles

Heavy Support
3 Biovores
Trygon

I think what this list allows me to do is to outflank 3 units right away OR infiltrate the stealers and still outflank a tervigon.

In either case I believe there's still enough priority on the table turn 1 for them to spread their attention around.

The addition of both squads of stealers also gives me possible OM rolls to deal with fliers and a way to slam into Meqs and rip them to shreads.

What do you guys think?

[swarmy]

Nov 27, 2012 16:37:24 GMT roxor08 said:

I like the suggestions so far and I think what I would be lacking in most of these lists is a way to deal with Meqs effectively. With that in mind I want to throw out this list, which maintains my flexible deployment, keeps my scoring units strong, but doesn't detract from the overall idea...

HQ
Flyrant w/ TL-Devs, and I would like OA but I think Hive commander would be most effective

Elite
3 Hive guard

Troops
10 Genestealers w/ TS and Broodlord w/ IA and TS
10 Genestealers w/ TS and Broodlord w/ IA and TS
10 Termagants
15 Termagants
Tervigon w/ TS, all three psychic powers, crushing claws, stinger salvo
Tervigon w/ TS, all three psychic powers, crushing claws, stinger salvo

Fast attack
18 Gargoyles

Heavy Support
3 Biovores
Trygon

I think what this list allows me to do is to outflank 3 units right away OR infiltrate the stealers and still outflank a tervigon.

In either case I believe there's still enough priority on the table turn 1 for them to spread their attention around.

The addition of both squads of stealers also gives me possible OM rolls to deal with fliers and a way to slam into Meqs and rip them to shreads.

What do you guys think?

"Slam" is such a strong word . I think genestealers do a little more hobbling and stumbling to their targets in this edition but maybe you will have some luck with them. I would be ready to do some going to ground in area terrain near objectives with them for those 3+ cover saves with a hopeful FnP to back it up. I think they are the best suited for clinging to those objectives without falling back. That's only based on my limited experiences trying multiple groups of 5-8 with a broodlord in them.

[Jabberwocky]

Stealers really rely on the powers now for me.

Use them for suppression/support until it is safe to cross no mans land/assault.

FMCs for example tend to draw a lot of massed fire, which can provide a window of safety for stealers to make their move. Like wise podded devilgants could be used to draw bolters and give a screen to the stealers as they assault turn 2/3.

[roxor08]

Thats kinda what I'm thinking. At this point over watch can't be figured in because there's only a 1/6 chance of them hitting then its still only 1/2 that they wound....not to mention applying the wound to the BL to save...

I might try this latest list first and then depending on how they go, default back to list 1....