1850 Daemons/Orks now with battle report

[Voice of Reason]

I dunno if this concept has been floated here yet, and since a fair number of us are chaos/daemon players anyway...

Daemons
HQ
Fateweaver 333
Epidemius 110
Herald of Nurgle 65
-Aura of decay

Troop
10x Plaguebearers 150
10x Plaguebearers 150
10x Plaguebearers 150
10x Plaguebearers 150

Elite
Beast of Nurgle 35

Heavy
Daemon Prince 210
-Daemonic flight, Instrument of Chaos, Iron Hide, Mark of Nurgle, Cloud of Flies
Daemon Prince 205
-Daemonic flight, Iron Hide, Mark of Nurgle, Cloud of Flies

Orks
HQ
Big Mek 95
- Shokk attack Gun

Troop
30x Gretchin, 3 Runherd 150

Fortification
Skyshield Landing Pad

Division of forces:
Preferred group: Epidemius, Herald, 10x Plaguebearers, 10x Plaguebearers, 10x Plaguebearers
2nd group: Fateweaver, 2x Daemon Prince, 10x Plaguebearers, Beast of Nurgle.

Grots set up on/near the skyshield landing pad. Epidemius, the herald and their 10x plaguebearers land near them, and the double Auras of Decay slaughter grots in my shooting phase, causing Epidemius' tally to jump to 15 or 20 on my turn. On the next turn the skyshield raises its shields to protect Epidemius's tally.

If the other force shows up, Fateweaver keeps near the two daemon princes as they swoop around.

This way, I have a little artillery (shokk attack gun), 3 fairly tough flying monsters, 3 units of plaguebearers that can kill just about anything but vehicles...

Thoughts?

[Voice of Reason]

Had my first game on Friday.
Battle Report 1; Vs. Chaos
My opponent had to stretch a little to get to 1850 - he added a squad of chaos terminators, with some upgrades
Abbadon + 5 Terminators (power fists, chain fists, reaper autocannon)
Fearless Chaos Lord with murder sword, 4+ save, 18ish cultists with heavy stubbers, autoguns
18ish cultists with heavy stubbers, autopistols
10ish Chaos troops with heavy bolter, plasma gun, sergeant with... some random weapons
6-8 chosen
2 hellbrutes, power scourge
1 heldrake with flamer
-most of his set came from what looked like 2 dark vengance sets. he proxied the dark angel terminators as chaos terminators
- I didn't math out his list to make sure it was right.

My list: as above

Setup: (this was my 5th game of 6th ed, you'll have to forgive the imprecise names and rules errors)
long-table deployment, big guns hold objectives. I got first turn.

I rolled and got the daemon princes detachment, deployed 20 grots on the platform in the center rear of my zone, the rest, the runtherds and the big mek underneath. He set up (from my perspective) with the chosen extreme left, marines up in a building on the left, un-led cultists center-left, hellbrutes center-right, cultists + murder Lord extreme right. Abbadon and friends, heldrake in reserve.


Turn 1
I dropped the daemon princes on the right behind a big building. Scatter was either hit or beneficial. One group of plague bearers mishapped and my opponent placed them in by back extreme right corner. Beast of nurgle dropped behind a building to act as a speedbump. Nothing really happened. Big mek fired and scattered off target, Fateweaver was out of range, his buddies "ran" forward while swooping.

Turn 2
Epidemius drops in on the skyshield along with 1 group of plaguebearers, plaguebearers drop center-forward. Epidemius and friends wipe out the 20 grots on top of the landing pad and the tally is now 20. The daemons move up and fateweaver shoots at the murder lord and cultists, fails a shot at a helbrute. the misplaced group runs toward center-front. His heldrake comes in and he's not able to place it well enough to take advantage of the baleflamer. Abbadon drops in not far from the beast of nurgle and the landing pad. Raft of shooting at my various units, Fateweaver takes a wound but doesn't flee.

Turn 3
Beast backs off a bit, corner plaguebearers move up towards abbadon, princes move toward murder lord + squad and the helbrute. Center plaguebearers move up towards the center-left cultists. I shoot the Shokk attack gun at Abbadon, roll 3,3 and hit one of my plaguebearer units, but it scatters off and does nothing. Fateweaver shoots again, kills some Murder Lord cultists then charges. Daemon Prince 1 charges the Murder Lord cultists as well. That fight lasts for the rest of the game. The other Prince charges a helbrute and pounds it into dust. His turn, Heldrake blasts Epidemius and causes no wounds. He does some other shooting, kills a couple plaguebearers, charges the beast of Nurgle. Abbadon's daemon weapon rolls a 1 and he's out for the round. the beast kills a terminator and he saves the return powerfist attacks. (5+inv,3+fnp) His 2nd helbrute charges the center forward plaguebearers, kills 1.

Turn 4
Final group of plaguebearers drop in on his back edge near the center left cultists. Displaced plaguebearers set up to charge Abbadon. Daemon prince moves to charge the other Helbrute (fighting plaguebearers). the last plaguebearers set up to charge the cultists. No shooting. all charges happen. Daemon prince kills 2nd helbrute, freeing the fighting plaguebearers. Abbadon and friends kill Beast of nurgle, and this fight will last to the end of the game, seeing Abbadon with 1 wound remaining and no terminators against 7 plaguebearers.

Turn 5
The two squads of plaguebearers charge the center left cultists, killing them to a man. The Free daemon prince glides over to the squad guarding an objective in the corner, beats them in combat (killing the champ) and making them flee.

End of game, Final Score:
Striogi: 2 objectives, first blood (helbrute), line breaker.
Opponent: 1 objective

upon reflection, I should have been more bold. I played very conservatively, desperately worried that he'd be able to get to Epidemius and take away my tally bonus. If I had charged Epi's entourage of 10 plaguebearers into Abbadon's squad, they wouldn't have survived, and I could have upped my objective score by at least 1. Additionally, the tarpit of the fearless murder lord challenging fateweaver was... entertaining. I should have just left Fateweaver alone and used my 2nd daemon prince to rampage across the table.
Least effective unit: Shokk attack gun. but then again, it's orky technology... what do you expect.

[wisdomseyes1]

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Please for the love of god. Don't.. why... beast of... oh...my...

themed lists always bring out some of the most overshadowed and overcost models in the game. Beasts of Nurgle. I love their fluff... but that's really all I love about them.

Strategic warlord trait would have been beneficial to you (you said nothing of warlord traits, so i thought I would point that out)


Now, here are a few points of confusion.

Epydimus came down and by himself made a tally of 20 against 20 grotz? Is that insane luck or what?

How, with abbodon at 1 wound, do a group of 7 plaguebearers whose weapons are poison 2+ and ignore armor, not kill him?


Otherwise, gratz on the win. Wish you wouldn't have bothered with the beast. Basically any other elite unit would be better, even at a full tally... and it itself probably doesn't do anything until the tally hits 20.

PS: While its kind of a good idea to know what good deployment options are, I suggest looking at the enemy army and deciding the waves from that. Presetting the waves usually constrains the layout and tactic in the mind of the user. It also makes the army very flat where the army is actually very flexible.

[Voice of Reason]

Nov 28, 2012 22:25:52 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

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Please for the love of god. Don't.. why... beast of... oh...my...

themed lists always bring out some of the most overshadowed and overcost models in the game. Beasts of Nurgle. I love their fluff... but that's really all I love about them.

You need to look at them again with 6th ed. Slow and purposeful means they don't get to run.. woopee. Now you're looking at a 35 point critter that has T5, D6 Str 4 attacks at WS 3, oh and FNP on top of that.
Compared to Tyranid Warrior, Minimum 90 points for 3 models with T4, 3 Str 4 attacks at WS 5. Sure the warrior has a better base stat line for fewer points, but then, when was the last time you spent 30 points per model on a warrior? My usual load out for them is lashwhip/bonesword and toxin sacs - that's 50 points per model, and they're still fodder for powerfists and krak missiles.

The beast of Nurgle is durable, able to face down power fists and krak missiles alike. Adding the tally bonus means it's 5++ and 3+ FnP... that's 2 out of 9 actual wounds getting through from all weapons up to Str 9. Marines hit them on 3+ and wound them on 5+. out of 81 marine attacks, 4 get through. The metric is the same for bolters. missile launchers and power fists? roughly 1 in 10. Take 3 of them and they can be very brutal.

Strategic warlord trait would have been beneficial to you (you said nothing of warlord traits, so i thought I would point that out)

oops - I did take that - I got the one that's -1 to his reserve rolls.

Now, here are a few points of confusion.

Epydimus came down and by himself made a tally of 20 against 20 grotz? Is that insane luck or what?

Nope, designed that way.
Epidemius and his buddy the Herald of Nurgle (daemon rules let me field 2 heralds for a single HQ slot) both had Aura of Decay. All 34 ork models were within 6" of both of them, and majority toughness was 2 - Daemon FAQ says Aura of decay requires line of sight to be used, and since only 20 grots were on the upper level in Line of sight, I got to roll 40 aura of decay attacks on them on the turn Epidemius arrived, wounding on 4+. I got something like 25 wounds, killing the 20 grots I needed. Next time I may put 25 or so grots on the upper level, just so I can be sure to get the tally to 20

How, with abbodon at 1 wound, do a group of 7 plaguebearers whose weapons are poison 2+ and ignore armor, not kill him?

Abbadon came with 5 terminator friends and none of the plaguebearers are characters, so he was putting the wounds I was doing on the rest of the squad. if we had another round to play I would have killed him as when we quit, there was only Abbadon left. Plaguebearers only have 1 attack, sadly. which is why I think I should be running the 2 groups together, just to get the hammerblow in and prevent them from being overwhelmed. This is because what I saw when they assaulted: initial damage was catastrophic, but if they didn't break from that (damn you, fearless), it became a war of attrition. true, the plaguebearers would probably win that, but it takes a while to grind the enemy down.

Otherwise, gratz on the win. Wish you wouldn't have bothered with the beast. Basically any other elite unit would be better, even at a full tally... and it itself probably doesn't do anything until the tally hits 20.

I wish I could fit in a second or 3rd beast. The other thing about the beast is that being a single model and fairly durable, I expect that most people will ignore it, at which point I get to use him to contest objectives or bog down an enemy unit. Understand taht the beast survived 1 whole round of assault against a charging squad of fisty terminators. In this case, he was perfectly placed, because he prevented Epidemius' squad from being charged by Abbadon and friends.

PS: While its kind of a good idea to know what good deployment options are, I suggest looking at the enemy army and deciding the waves from that. Presetting the waves usually constrains the layout and tactic in the mind of the user. It also makes the army very flat where the army is actually very flexible.

good point. I'll have to play with other options for deployment.

[wisdomseyes1]

I was wondering where the other herald went. You didn't mention he was attached to epydimus. That makes a lot more sense. I know the build quite well. It was discussed here and The Daemonic legion alike for validity of the tactic questions and usefulness


As for beasts, that is actually a 6th edition perspective i am looking at. I don't compare it to tyranid warriors. That is folly, this isn't tyranids.

I compare beasts of Nurgle to other daemon models. Particularly elite slots.

>35 Points for T5 2 wounds and a 5++. That is every single one of them (Flamers exempt, but flamers a completely different ballpark of mean)

>Beast has Feel no pain. Okay. Bloodcrushers have power armor and Flamers and fiends don't have the durribility, but their speed and killing power put them in a category that makes them trend towards a very aggressiveness tactic. Bloodcrushers, at that, have powerswords. A single bloodcrusher without effect of tally will easily triple the amount of kills a beast is capable of.

>D6 attacks at S4. Poison, so... 6 S4 attacks that reroll to wound against basic troops. Against tactical marines that averages to maybe 1 kill rounding up, assuming you get a 6 on the D6 roll.

>Slow and purposefulness actually does hurt quite a bit. Not in terms of actual combat, but in terms of the turn you come down. You can't preposition you models to move closer or farther away from your opponents models. OR, at the very least, move so that you aren't clumped together (plaguebearers, I am looking at you). Slow and purposeful hit Greater Daemons and Plaguebearers hard. Beasts of Nurgle can probably live with it, though. Just there are actual drawbacks to it people don't consider.

As I said, Beasts of Nurgle are great once the tally is up. But, in a scope of comparison to other options, Bloodcrushers of Khorne are better. Fiends of Slaanesh are better. Flamers of Tzeentch are worlds better.

I am not telling you not to use it. I am just saying its outclassed. If they work for you (although what I read you have only played one game with them) then I say go for it.

[Voice of Reason]

Fair enough, however:
There are a few other factors:
1. I don't own any other daemon models (for that matter, my Fateweaver is actually a heavily converted Balrog) besides 2 more beasts (total 3)
2. I like the idea of an all nurgle force (and not buying any more models)

I had failed to realize the plaguebearers have slow and purposeful, but you know, whatever