Anti Flying Necron Croissant Spam!

[liquid405]

Oct 29, 2012 4:29:30 GMT gigasnail said:

it's not that spores are great AA, it's that their shooting is terrible to begin with. you use massed TL shots from them to down aircraft; orks do the same thing w/ buggies and bikes.

note: not to nitpick, but it's TL deathspitters on spores, not devourers. BL devourers on spores would be awesome. you had the profile right just names swapped.

You are right, TL Deathspitters. Either way, my lists consistently have 4+ spores in them, and I di not have many problems with flyers because of this.

[drummerboy]

I've never played against a flyer spam list like this, but I was giving it some thought and was wondering if any of the following ideas might work?

I think I'd use 9 biovores to go for turn 1 tabling and then the rest tervigons and go for durability. You could use the tervigons to pump out gants which can be used to block flyer movement. With 5 tervigons total you could put out a ton of bodies and at the very least keep them away from objectives...possibly even the board.

2 Flyrants and 3 tervigons may be the better way to go, but I'm not sure how well the flyrants hold up. I think they could drop 1 per turn each on average. If you are lucky enough to get iron arm on them (and the tervis) they would have to be able to dish out some what of a beating.

Zoans with OM is also good, but kinda unreliable. I'm not sure they'd be better than HG, but on paper they seem to be about the same overall. Zaons may tip the scale in their favor due to the versatility that the psychic abilities present.

Of course having a list built to handle (more like possibly put up with) the toaster list is going to be both boring and have many flaws of its own I'm sure. Hopefully some of this is thought provoking if nothing else.

[roxor08]

I'm kinda confused...don't flyers take a str 9 hit when you when you hit them with ANY shooting?

Thats what spawned gants are for!

OR

What about flyrants? Give them a set of TL-devs and vector strike and you've got a flyer down! 2 Flyrants? Not only can you have skyfire AND vector strike, but you also can get lucky and OM on them...

I don't know. I'd probably lose to that list, but I'd try and have fun losing!

[gigasnail]

you're thinking of flying MC's. flying vehicles don't suffer from this problem.

[roxor08]

O I C.....my bad....

[t⊗theark]

Oct 29, 2012 16:13:12 GMT fragile said:

Totheark, what is he starting on the board with? Other than Tryzan and lych guard ??

No, that's it. They usually on an objective, in cover or way near the back of the board. The unit is surprizingly hard to kill and when the flyers start coming he does this unit juggling with warriors on the ground. Usually what's left get's beamed up, taken over and beamed into your ranks by the next opportunity.

[maugrim]

Yes, flying transport vehicles *do* suffer from that problem. There is nothing in the *rules* which makes the occupants of a Night Scythe immune to the effects of crashing the Transport. The rules only state that instead of disembarking at the end of the crashing sequence they return to reserve. They still count as being Embarked in the transport (regardless of what the Fluff says) so still have all the benefits and hinderences of that.

Also - Tyranids have problems with getting across the table fast, but if you have Spore Pods and/or Ymgarls positioned well and go first - you could drop enough stuff right beside his Lychguard unit to eliminate them, instant loss since he has nothing on the board at the end of your player turn.

[gigasnail]

maugrim i'm not sure who you're referring to, but no, flying vehicles do not take a grounding test if you hit them.

[Jabberwocky]

The vehicles don't get grounded but a wrecked flying transport inflicts S10 AP2 hits on the occupants as well as a S9 large blast scattered from it's position, if I remember rightly.

[maugrim]

Indeed. So 5 Warriors are statistically likely to be all killed (maybe 1 lives) if their ride gets killed.

[N.I.B.]

Oct 29, 2012 16:22:33 GMT benseek24 said:

Use genestealers and nids!

Yes Tyranid players. Use Tyranids. That's some good advice right there.

[fragile]

Oct 30, 2012 0:53:38 GMT t⊗theark said:

Oct 29, 2012 16:13:12 GMT fragile said:

Totheark, what is he starting on the board with? Other than Tryzan and lych guard ??

No, that's it. They usually on an objective, in cover or way near the back of the board. The unit is surprizingly hard to kill and when the flyers start coming he does this unit juggling with warriors on the ground. Usually what's left get's beamed up, taken over and beamed into your ranks by the next opportunity.

Well that is a seriously risky tactic. Im not sure what list you play, but unless he goes first, there is a very very good chance he gets tabled before his turn 2. In the beginning I was concerned about a local 6 flyer list, with swarms and the spyders. But after playing it a few times, I found the flyers just dont put out enough firepower for me to really worry about. They have good quality and will generally kill things but it takes about 18 wounds from a Night Scythe to kill a Tervigon (without any buffs). Also you can avoid alot of firepower by clustering your troops, in my case, gargolyes and spawned termagant in the center of the board, near maximum coherency and limit the places the NS can go to. So usually they will fly on the board, get to shoot and then have to fly off or into a corner the next round and not shoot at anything useful.

Second issue here is you have to kill 1 unit to auto win. While that can be hard for most typically Tyranid lists, using things like Biovores, Flyrants, and Hive Guard can seriously wound that one unit in the first turn. Given this opponent, I might stay with codex powers for Onslaught for the HG. Ymgarls popping out on R2 can easily eat that command unit. Not to mention assaulting with the Flyrant and Gargoyles in R2.

Finally, there is no quantity of firepower for them. They have small groups of warriors which will be easily killed the moment they drop out of the NS. The only real option is to keep them in the NS until the end of the game, which leaves them vulnerable to simple shooting from the HG. 11AV is not hard to punch with S8 hits. But he will want to get the warriors out since his commander will get eaten by assault otherwise.

With that 9 Flyer list, you simply need to worry about positioning your guys to prevent the Flyers from having consecutive shots one important targets. Keep your key troops, HG, etc in cover and use your buffs as normal. If you can lock the Flyrant in combat VS a unit on his turn, you will have a huge advantage on him.

[gigasnail]

there's a huge difference between anything *hitting* a FMC and actually wrecking/exploding a flyer. no one disputed the occupants of a flying transport take it on the chin when their tin box goes down in flames.

[romorini]

In the Necron's case it's not so clear. With the rules for the Invasion Beam, depending on how you match the wording in the codex with the crash-and-burn rules in the main rule book (they don't quite align), they do not take the hit and arrive on the board edge in tact.

[gigasnail]

no one was talking about necrons; i was correcting someone that had said flying vehicles take grounding tests like FMC. the necrons transports do need an faq probably to avoid arguments with them, certainly.