Hive Tyrant vs Power weapons

[Bane Wordsmith]

What is everyone's opinion/plans on keeping their Hive Tyrant alive?
At a 3+ save that's an awfully easy way to lose 170pts (at the cheapest). It's one thing to avoid the good guns by using cover before charging in, but what do you do against power weapons?
I love the idea of charging my Tyrant in to challenge my opponents champion, but then, oh no, power sword. Cool look, my best guy is dead, good job buddy. In that case, is it worth giving him an armoured shell? That's quite chunk of points, and he still get chewed up against a lot of weapons (oh hi there warscythe, I didn’t see you there).
So far the best strategy I can think of is run a lash whip and hope to god the guys dies before he can hit back. Or stay a good measure away from power weapons, which defeats the point of having this monster of a creature anyway; HE'S SUPPOSED TO EAT THAT CHAMPION WITH THE POWER WEAPON!

Thoughts?

[maine]

Armoured Shell became MUCH more worthwhile this edition, as it now makes you immune to most power weapons (except those which go at I1 normally). Sure you'll still face some weapons that will laugh at your 2+, but the pool of weapons that negate your save is drastically reduced.

With a lash whip and bonesword, your targets should go at I1. HT is an MC so AP2, so the Bonesword ignoring armour is redundant, but you can potentially cause instant death - don't bank on this though. The lash whip is what you're keeping this option for. If you kill them before they strike, it doesn't matter what AP the weapon is. This is what Old Adversary and Smash will help with (at least, if they aren't Eternal Warrior or have an invuln)...

Old Adversary lets the Tyrant AND all units within 6" reroll all 1s on To-Hit AND To-Wound, which makes the single pair of scything talons redundant - swap the now useless talons for TL devourers to increase your general utility. The difference between OA and 2 pairs of scything talons is minimal against most targets given the Tyrant's very high WS - roughly 0.4 more hits per attack, but more wounds vs T4-T6 (3.111 hits with OA, 3.556 hits with Talons, but OA also benefits To Wound, and nearby units as well).

Smash vs no Smash at T5, WS less than Tyrant, with Old Adversary, no Toxin Sacs:
No Smash: 4 Attacks, 3.11 hit, 2.19 wound, AP2
Smash: 2 Attacks, 1.56 hit, 1.5 wound, AP2, Instant Death against T5.

Toxin Sacs may be worth taking, but only help against T5 and higher (OA has you covers you at T4 and less). You can bump non-smash attacks against T5 to 2.76

Psychic powers may help you - switch to 6E book powers and hope you pull Iron Arm or Endurance.

Finally... Acid Blood is good for revenge. They may kill you, but they'll probably die in the process.

[Illithid]

how is the Hive Tyrant dying to a Sergeant with a Power Sword? Challenge the Sergeant and kill him outright. The Hive Tyrant should be hitting at a higher initiative, has AP2, normally has Old Adversary so rerolls 1's, wounds on a 2 and generally has 5 attacks (plus the chance of ID with his Bonesword).

I just do not understand where you are coming from.

[carnogaunt]

It depends on what type of unit we're talking about.

A Champion/Sergeant with a Power Weapon is really not that scary. Bear in mind that even ignoring your armor save, he still only hits on fours and wounds on sixes. So in the isolated case of a lone Hive Tyrant versus a MEq squad with a Power Weapon, you have decent odds of wiping out the squad and only suffering a single wound.

Power Fists are scarier, but you always have the option of issuing a challenge. You'll be wasting some of your attacks, but then you're almost guaranteed to kill the Power Fist before it strikes if the character accepts, or the character will not be able to make its attacks if it refuses. Champions of Chaos are required to issue/accept challenges.


More powerful units like Lychguard and TH/SS Terminators are things that you might want your Hive Tyrant to avoid, but this isn't unfair within the context of the game because such units cost a similar number of points to the Hive Tyrant and because the Hive Tyrant is useful for things other than close combat.

[disband85]

Oct 15, 2012 7:31:13 GMT carnogaunt said:

Bear in mind that even ignoring your armor save, he still only hits on fours and wounds on sixes.

Cast paroxysm on them before u charge, now they're hitting on 5s and wounding on 6s.

[Jabberwocky]

I find T6 is more than enough protection against single models wielding any sort of power weapon, especially when you are I5 potentially with IA, endurance or OM/enfeeble on the enemy.

[gloomfang]

Power weapons and PF are really not that big of an issue for me so far. If they hit and they wound, then you loose a wound. Not really a huge deal.

Force weapons are a diffrent matter all together. They can ignore the armour and they can kill with a single wound. Thank goodness for SitW, but I still keep my tyrants away from Force Weapons as a general rule.

[jahatch42878]

I tend to agree... I'm happier with my tyrant in CC against most other unit champions, as I fear lascannons, massed plasma weapons, and fast moving heavily armed flyers that suddenly are hovering 18" away from my tyrant in a direction that doesn't grant him/her/it and cover more than most powerswords... as everyone has said, Powerfists/Axes tend to go last so hopefully the tyrants had dealt with those... maybe Bane can post an example where his Tyrant went down to easily (and we all have days where the opponent rolls only 5's and 6's to hit and wound, right?)...
Josh

[Deathnid]

dude, unless my tyrant has wings he will have armoured shell.
no question.

[gigasnail]

^