1500 pt list - newbie

[reaper1209]

Hello, let me introduce myself as this is my first post on here. I am very new to warhammer (40k) and I mostly play with other newbies.

The main guy I play against uses Space Marines and usually kills me at long rage with a predator tank and thunderfire cannon, then decimates me at close with a dreadnought. He loves to use his flamethrower on my gaunts . His usual HQ is Lysander but he has been known to use another non-character HQ (Chapter Master?) or sometimes both. We normally play 1200-1500 pt games. Any advice on what I should add or replace in my army as well as any way to improve my army in general would be much appreciated ;D

Heres my the 1500 pt list I was going to try next game:

Swarmlord - 280

Hive Tyrant w/ H. Venom Cannon, Armoured Shell, Implant attack, Toxin Sacs, Toxin Miasma, Acid Blood, Regeneration, Thorax Swarm, Paroxysm, Psychic Scream - 335

1x lictor - 65

2 x3 Warriors. 1 brood w/ Venom Cannon, 1 w/ Barbed Strangler - 245

8x Genestealers w/ toxic sacs - 136

15x termagaunts w/ devourers & toxic Sacs - 165

1x Trygon Prime w/ regeneration and toxic sacs - 275

I planned on basically using the swarmlord and Tyrant as distraction/intimidation as he is also pretty new and (knowing him) will likely try to take them out with his shooters while
I use deepstrike with the trygon to attack his tank or thunderfire cannon and hit his dreadnaught with swarm or tyrant. Really with this guy my problems are those three things as
I don't usually have issues with anything else he fields.

Let me repeat that I am new and still in the process of collecting models and any help/suggestions/criticism is appreciated. Thanks.

[scrotatohead]

Your advantage over Vanilla Space Marines should always be numbers. He simply can't field as many models as you for the same points. Your build plays to his strengths though. A Tyrant even wrapped in armoured shell is going to get gunned down by AP2 weapons. Same for the Swarmlord. Fielding both of them at 1500 points is very expensive distraction, especially if you are walking them both up the board. If you must keep both you need to add at least one Tyrant Guard to each so that you have a few abblative wounds to keep them alive into close combat. I recommend switching the Tyrant to a Flyrant with Dual Devourers. Predator and TFC can't Sky Fire so the beast will be safe from their guns and on top of them very quickly.

Do you have a Tervigon model or Carnifex you can proxy? You need both the 'gant spawning ability plus the psychic powers offered.

Your warrior brood can't have both an HVC and a BS. It's one or the other. Warriors are notoriously squishy with their low toughness. Yes they provide synapse, but so does a Tervigon and at a much higher survival rating. Unless you're using them to sit on a backfield objective I'd drop them.

Consider using your genestealers as ymgarl stealers and having them Dormant in the same cover you expect your opponent to place his support weapons/teams. Keep the brood small so you don't lose models when you place them on the board. Then surprise the (please do not swear) out of him when they pop out and shred the Tech Marine manning the TFC.

You're really underutilizing your Elites slots, which are our best units, point for point. I don't field lictors because their fluff doesn't translate to the table top. It takes three turns for the lictor to arrive, use it's ability for the Trygon, and for the Trygon to be able to do something. That means the Trygon isn't effective until turn four, IF your reserve rolls put the Lictor on the board first. And single lictors don't last long if you're trying to do anything else with them. Do you have Hive Guard? If you do, field them. If you don't, see if your opponent will let you proxy your warriors for them. You need the ranged anti-everything that they bring to the table.

If the TFC is giving you fits consider putting 15 Devourergants in a pod and dropping them right next to it. There's no model for the mycetic spore so you can use what ever you want that's roughly the size of a SM drop pod. I use soda cans and nobody cares. 45 shots from those gants will overwhelm the TFC, even in cover. Also good against Devestator squads and the rending away rear armor of the Predator if you can drop the pod back there.

Make the Trygon Prime a standard Trygon. Failing IB rolls is no big deal for this guy anymore. You want it to Rage to get those two extra attacks on the charge. Plus, if he's failing his leadership in close combat then you either ran him into a high model count meatgrinder or your dice failed you.

Are these the only models you've got or do you have others to choose from?

[Illithid]

Ok, to have two walking Tyrants at 1500pts is extremely expensive. Go Swarmlord or the other (personally I would drop the Swarmlord and get 1x Tyrant Guard and roll on Biomancy for Iron Arm). On this unit, lose Implant Attack, because if you give him LW/BS, they have a chance of inflicting instant death anyway. Lose Toxic Miasma (maority of what he will fight will have a high Toughness. Lose Acid Blood. Make sure you roll on Biomancy - If you get Iron Arm, the Tyrant Guard will get whatever Toughness he gets.

The lone Lictor will do very little, scrap him. They also are fairly ordinary.

The Venom Cannon is actually a fairly ordinary weapon (not that effective vs Marines). You would be better getting some Hive Guard and a Tervigon to create more Termagants and hold objectives. I would actually use my Warriors as Hive Guard and run them as two squads of 2.

Make your genestealers Ymgarls and hide them in area terrain near his corner. On the turn you assault, make them Toughness 5 so they suck up Overwatch shots.

Lose the Prime upgrade on the Trygon and regeneration. They are just not worth the points. The Trygon (if raging) will actually get 2 more attacks. I personally would lose Toxic Sacs also.

Now, I have saved you 700 points (almost 1/2 of your total!). The Tyrant Guard will cost you 65pts, the Ymgarls will be 48pts more and the Hive Guard for 2x units of 2 will be 200pts. This leaves you with 387pts to play with!. i personally would get a Tervigon and some Gargoyles.

Hope this helps!

[eugee]

Slight mis-statment on the Trygon/Rage. It's ONE extra attack on the charge. You already get +1A, regardless. Prime is giving you extra shots, synapse coverage, and the ability to challenge. I'm not saying a vanilla trygon sucks by any means, just that equating failing an IB test (which is rare, really) to getting 2 extra attacks is not accurate.

There's great advice here--you need numbers, especially to kill space marines. Warriors have a specialized role; being T4 multi-wounds makes them prime targets for S8 weaponry, and you don't have to target saturation to give them a different target. Warriors are not bad; but they are a supporting unit, not really optimal as the core of your troops.

If there's one unit I will never skip in my lists, it's the Hive Guard; it's just that amazing. I also won't run a list without at least one Tervigon, the force multiplication alone is amazing. Ymgarl genestealers would really make them more useful and threaten his backfield. Gargoyles will give you a very fast unit to tie up the gunlines and reduce the shooting you receive. I run 3 monstrous creatures in my own 1500 as well, so I don't think it's a problem to drop half your points into them, but they need a swarm to force the enemy to shoot at something else, too!

[reaper1209]

Thanks a lot for the great advice! No I don't have too many other models yet but this gives me direction on what to prioritize in my next few purchases. What do you recommend for use against his dreadnought because so far the only models that haven't gotten whooped by his flamethower or in CC are my tyrant/Swarmlord and trygon. If those two are the only real threats I can utilize thats not a problem but it would be nice to know some other options as he likes to drop it in w/ a pod into my squishy guys. Thanks again!

[eugee]

Hive Guard & Zoanthropes are your best answer to Dreadnoughts really, especially Hive Guard. You just need to be within 24", no LoS requirement. Lacking that, you are right to use MCs to tear up that armor. The problem with the Swarmlord and armored Tyrant is that they aren't particularly fast. But if you know it's going to be dropped in your backfield, make sure you can counter-attack.

A dreadnought in a drop pod is usually referred to as a suicide dread, because it's a cheap way to take out many more points that it costs. Rather than try to prevent it from happening (impossible), build redundancy into your list so that there's no single linchpin unit that you can't lose.