mysetic spores

[ikken]

so i stopped by the hardware store on my way home from work last night , and picked up a can of expanding ridgid foamn for $7 .
my plan is to try using this , as suggested in another thread , to make mysetic spores . with any luck i will have 8 or 10 of them on sunday ready to be painted .
now the question becomes , what to do with them and how to equip them, and how do i make them work .

my initial thought was don't equip them at all , just run them stock and use them as transports .

then i was reading the rules in 6th for MC and MS : MC , transport spore , immobile ect . fear , hammer of wrath , , move through cover . the MC , and its move through cover that i initially thought was a classic GW pointless rule in relation to MS as they are immobile , until i read the part about move through cover means that they auto pass dangerous terrain roles . which i take to mean that in the case of a MS if you deep strike into cover (Forrest , or ruins ) you don't have to role for dangerous terrain .
MC are also relentless , meaning they can fire 2 weapons a turn in the shooting phase , which means that MS can shoot the turn they arrive , ( although it has to be at the closest visible enemy ) .

with a BS of 2 , and a range of 6 inches on ripper tentacles one does not expect them to hit much , but if you kit them out with barbed strangler or a venom cannon , you have a blast weapon which is less dependent on BS , plus a range of 36" , blast weapons in 6th are much better , so i thought this might be a serious option . For 55 or 60 points / spore you have a gun turret that has a 36'' range , spores if modeled after a SM DP will be fairly tall , which should give them a good field of fire .
**It is worth noting that for sake of not arguing with your opponent you should model the the gun at the top of the model ( again like the SM DP ) **

if you run 6 or more of them, they become a threat all on their own . that is alot of pie plates/ or medium str blast templates shooting every turn . no opponent can realistically ignore them , the way they could if you ran them stock . They have to deal with them
which should mean that he will have to spend a turn at least shooting at the spore which is a turn he is not shooting at the unit it carried , or at some other unit . if you get really clever , particularly with spores carrying MC , you could drop them into terrain like forests or ruins where they would probably get cover saves , and maybe keeping them alive that extra little bit forcing him to commit even more resources to them .

with kill points being less of a problem in 6th than it was in 5th , can MS be used in this fashion , and would it be effective .
i have never used MS b4 , so i kick it out for discussion .

[commandersasha]

I used to add template weapons to my spores, but as they have to target the closest enemy, there was always too much risk to my Gaunts, and even the spore itself!
Over watch makes adding more guns a bit more viable, I suppose, but I'be been running on tentacles happily for now, I'd rather spend the points elsewhere.
Worth reconsidering though, 6th is all about the shooting!

[wisdomseyes1]

The only problem with running 6- you have to run 6 additional units to take the Mycetic spore with. That means is 40x6 points + an additional minimum 50 points per spore + and additional whatever upgrade you take for them.

thats what, 600 points right there and all you did was deepstrike termagants in units of 10? Of course this is bad logic... lets just pretend you use it on models you were already taking, and you managed to have 6 units that are able to take spores. thats 300 points and does support your tactic.

Now lets also remember there are reserves rules. You can't hold more than half of your army in reserves and if you manage to have no models on the table at the end of any game turn, you lose.

There is also another issue with that "no more than 50%" rule. Vehicles that must start in reserves are exempt as per the FAQ. It says nothing about other non-vehicle models that start in reserves, so rules as written it can be said that the spore itself counts as part of half your army. That means running the above 600 points, you HAVE to run 12 additional units that dont come in from reserves in the rest of your points (and even if your playgroup is nice, that is still a prerequisite for 6 units)

Spores cannot be dropped by themselves unlike drop pods. This means that the models you purchased the spore for have to be deployed with the spore. Which of course means a lot when it comes to using a spore as a threat all its own and the ammount of models you have on the table.

So... maybe not a spore army, but spores can in fact have threat value. ripper tenticals hit about 2 times on average and you can drop them into the rear armor of a vehicle. They are contesting units. Ext.

TL;DR- They are cool and have some nice toys, but losing the fact Killpoints are being 1/3 of the missions has not removed their weakness altogether. This edition they gained being a model that forces models off the table and stops you from being able to have flexibility in reserves.

[coredump]

So yes, if you plan to run MySpores, you need to plan around it. But since I think that was the intention of your question here, that probably isn't an issue for you. I doubt you were planning on dropping 60 gaunts in 10 spores.... You will, of course, need to utilize units that benefit from MySpores. Devilfexes, Devilgaunts, zoans, etc.

As for the 50% rule, it has very little impact on your list. Since all units that must start in reserve do not count... and both the MySpore *and* passengers *must* start in reserve..... not a problem; you could reserve your entire army if they all had Spores. However....

You will still lose if you have no units on the board at the end of any *game* turn, so be careful about that. I believe there is a "null deployment" thread in Tactics you might want to look over.

[rpricew]

*****NINJA'D

Sept 29, 2012 17:11:11 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

TL;DR- They are cool and have some nice toys, but losing the fact Killpoints are being 1/3 of the missions has not removed their weakness altogether. This edition they gained being a model that forces models off the table and stops you from being able to have flexibility in reserves.

Just a reminder to all, Kill Points are 1/6 of the missions in 6th not 1/3 as they were in 5th.

Also, the basic spore is 40 points without upgrades. However, I agree with Wisdomeyes1 on his thoughts about committing a large portion of your army to Mycetic Spores. It's a serious investment, and I've had some success with dropping two spore pods into my opponent's backfield. However, there are other threats in my army to take the focus off of the Mycetic Spores. Which means they usually only die when my opponent does NOT have anything else to shoot/assault.

With what you're proposing, and it may work, you are bringing these in as a MAJOR portion of your army. That means that they WILL be targeted quickly and often. Mycetic Spores die very easily with only a 4+ save and 3 wounds.

With TL Deathspitter (a popular choice) you are at 50 points a piece. Barbed Strangler is 55 points and Venom Cannon is 60 points.

240 points all the way up to 360 points plus the units that are coming in them.

As far as the 50% rule goes, I thought that Mycetic Spores were exempt from the 50% rule, since they, and any unit embarked in one, must arrive from Reserve via Deep Strike. If this isn't the case, then my army has been invalid from day one.

It sounds like you have an interesting idea there and the real answer will come when you put it on the table. Adding a couple of Devilfex, a couple of units of Devilgants, a Doom and maybe even a couple of Zoanthropes into your pods should get the attention of your opponent very quickly.

With this strategy though, make sure you take some durable units to start the game with, as those units will be vulnerable turns 1-2 before your Reserves arrive.

Taking Hive Commander or the Swarmlord will be a must to make those reserve rolls 2+. This will drastically increase your odds of hitting your opponent hard on the turn you arrive.

Good luck and post battle reports

[coredump]

Or and ADL with Comm Relay. This can help give cover to your starting models, help most of your spores drop turn 2, but also let you stall a unit if you don't want it until turn 3 or 4.


I keep thinking MySpores are T6.... that would have been nice.

If you drop it in area terrain, it can get a 5+ cover save; but any models that get out into terrain,need to take a Dang Terr test. (Hmmm... you should double check that, it was true in 5th not sure about 6th...)


I am intrigued how this goes for you. A single spore may fall into that 'nuisance' category. Where it keeps doing some damage, but isn't quite a big enough threat to devote an entire unit of shooting to kill it. Especially when they just dropped off some fexes, DoM and devilgaunts... target saturation/priority.
OTOH, it does just like a lone warrior....

[rpricew]

One good thing about Tyranids, all of our Single Wound Troops have Move Through Cover, which ignores Dangerous Terrain Tests. Also, I believe that Monstrous Creatures also gain Move Through Cover.

So Trygons, Carnifex & Devilgants all ignore the tests. Tunneling Raveners also ignore this test. Plus, the Trygon & Spore Pods can't Mishap unless they go off the board.

Warriors don't have MTC though, but they have multiple wounds to counter. All of the Elites have either MTC or multiple wounds.

hmmm...neat synergy with the Mycetic Spore/Deep Striking

[Davor]

I say go for it. Why? Why not? Just because people say it's not a viable tactic is not a reason to use it. Remember this is a game for fun. So who cares if you loose. Lern and adapt. After 5 or 10 times of losing, it might get boring then you move onto something else.

Again, like from a previous thread (not trying to bring the discussion here) not every game is about winning all the time. Why not try something different, and see if it's fun for you, then go ahead.

At least try it once. Actually try it 3 times, since if the second time it doesn't work again, give it one last chance to see if you can at least make it fun for you.

So I say yes, go ahead and try it.

[wisdomseyes1]

Just a reminder to all, Kill Points are 1/6 of the missions in 6th not 1/3 as they were in 5th.

That is what "Losing the fact killpoints are 1/3 of the missions" means.

I keep thinking Mycetic spores are T6.... that would have been nice.

Heck even T5 wounds have been nice when you look at 5th. T6 definitely would make sense, and while i hate to say this, compared to drop pods, it doesnt make any sense... AV12 on droppods? Fine... tghey are less points? Fine... but why are out spores onloy as tough as 3 genestealers?

As for the 50% rule, it has very little impact on your list. Since all units that must start in reserve do not count... and both the MySpore *and* passengers *must* start in reserve..... not a problem; you could reserve your entire army if they all had Spores

FAQ only lists vehicles as exempt...

The FAQ for reference-

"Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves? (p124)
A: No."

[rpricew]

Sept 30, 2012 18:37:04 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

Just a reminder to all, Kill Points are 1/6 of the missions in 6th not 1/3 as they were in 5th.

That is what "Losing the fact killpoints are 1/3 of the missions" means.

That's what I get for reading too fast... sorry for the confusion

[gigasnail]

commandersasha's reference to template weapons being dangerous to your own gants:

1) spore can't take any template weapons.

2) pretty sure you were meant blast weapons, which can and will scatter onto your own guys. the TL deathspitters are a better choice than the cluster spines, too bad they can't take the brainleech worms as an option too.

3) even if they had template weapons, they wouldn't be dangerous to your gants. read the template section in the BRB on page 52.

tl;dr: it's blast not template for cluster spines, people interchange the two terms and they're very different. your point was clear (and valid, i ran mine with cluster spines first few times i used spores. never again. saw the same thing happen to a friend's BT drop pods with that missile launcher thing, lOst half a squad of TH/SS termies, hilarious) just your terms were incorrect.

[Psychichobo]

It's an easy mistake to make regarding the terms blast and template though. GW do it themselves with an unholy frequency.

[N.I.B.]

Mycetic Spores should be T5 indeed. An enormous mass of muscles, sinews and tough hide, searing through the atmosphere, crashing on the ground with a 2-ton Carnifex inside, remaining alive and well, fighting with S6 tentacles. Then collapsing instantly from a tiny power fist. Makesnosense.

[ZergLord]

Sept 30, 2012 18:37:04 GMT wisdomseyes1 said:

but why are out spores onloy as tough as 3 genestealers?

Because since there are no GW models for them, GW wants to discourage you from scratchbuilding them. Either that, or Jervis thought that T5/T6 Spores are OP.

[coredump]

The FAQ was only about vehicles, because the Nid situation was completely covered in the Basic rules.

Any unit that must start in reserves, does not count towards the 50%.

The Spore must, the passengers must.