speedy 2k list , looking for advice

[thatnidguy]

Im just looking for some insight. This list works really well for me and i know i will have some troubles soon against necrons and advice?

Hive tyrant -
wings -
Hive commander -
Old adversary -

15x Gargoyles
- Adernal Glands -
- Toxin sacs -

15x Gargoyles
- Adrenal glands -
- Toxin sacs -

3x Zoanthropes -
- Spore -

Doom of malinti -
- spore -
7x Ymgarl Genestealers -

Trygon -

Trygon -

8x Genestealers -
- Scything Talons -

8x Genestealers -
- Scything Talons -

15x Hormaguants -
- Adrenal glands -
- Toxin Sacs -

15x Hormaguants -
- Adrenal Glands -
- Toxin Sacs -

[Illithid]

I know what you are aiming for, I use to love Hormagaunts, but they just are not that fast now. A few things to think about:

1) You are going to want at least T/L devourers on that Hive Tyrants, if not two (6x Str 6 shots will be your friend with Vector Strike)
2) Termagants are fairly fast compared to Hormagaunts now because they are birthed 6" forward, move 6" and then have the ability to run. Don't dismiss them.
3) Raveners would fit nicely into this list
4) Stealers are nowhere near as useful as they once were (the Ymgarls still are though!)

[thatnidguy]

I wanted to keep the tyrant CC so i can use those wonderful Psychic powers it has, (i.e) paroxysm. I am not really to worried about anti-air ,because no i play has any and I always have my Zoanthropes =)

I have been looking at Tguants more and more, but no farther then just making them Dguants and send them in a pod...I am trying to stay aways of the Cookie Cutter Tervigon make babies win tactic. havent 100% dismissed. and my gargoyles are my Tguants...with wings for 1 more point and cheap upgrades, and blinding venom. they are my main line breakers and SC hunters.

In all honestly the only thing nice i would be gaining from raveners would be 5 models + 2 to weapon skill so i roll a 3+ instead of a 4+ and a multi-wound squad. Dont get me wrong I have wanted to try them since i startd tyranid. but what can they do that a cheaper more model unit of Hguants cant do? for the pts for 5 raveners with upgrades, i have 2o + fully upgraded Hguants. which i an lock units in combat when i need to and i dont have to worry about ID. AND the dont have FLEET. kinda a deal breaker when i rockin a almost all CC army.

I still roll a no more then 10 model brood of stealers, for the reason of...the seem to always find a way to kill . glass hammer or not. I use them for the OH Shhh factor. most are focused on the 62 blood crazed flying gargolyes and Hguants moving 12" first turn. and sometimes THEY are the focus Fodder...(i.e) infilrate. im ok with a waste of 128 pts. if it takes fire off a unit that will benefit me better to get into CC. YES, Ymgarls are sweet, but in the right instance. so i can switch them out for a 4th Zoanthrope and spore to make 2x2 broods of them. also thats my anti-heavy mech solution. since my Hguants and Gargolyes can kill AV 10

And yes I can jump back and forth with what i choose to take the overwatch. I just like the fact that i give myself lots of flex and options when dealing with different units.

[Illithid]

Sept 25, 2012 5:33:48 GMT thatnidguy said:

In all honestly the only thing nice i would be gaining from raveners would be 5 models + 2 to weapon skill so i roll a 3+ instead of a 4+ and a multi-wound squad. Dont get me wrong I have wanted to try them since i startd tyranid. but what can they do that a cheaper more model unit of Hguants cant do? for the pts for 5 raveners with upgrades, i have 2o + fully upgraded Hguants. which i an lock units in combat when i need to and i dont have to worry about ID. AND the dont have FLEET. kinda a deal breaker when i rockin a almost all CC army.

FLEET no longer grants you assault after you run. So it is nowhere as useful for your hormagaunts anymore.

Raveners can rend, taking out marines like butter. They can also ignore terrain. So they move 12" in their movement phase and then can run through any terrain, without being slowed. Having a potential 24" assault.

Your Hormagaunts still have a chance of rolling less than 6" on their Move through Cover roll in movement and as such are slower. With only a potential 18" threat range.

As for the Tyrant, you would not lose any combat potential by taking T/L Devourers. You Swoop Turn One and hopefully pop a Rhino with your Strength 6 shots - you then assault next phase - the guns do not lower your combat efficiency. It also allows your Zoans (which will not be in till Turn 2 at the minimum) to focus on more important vehicles.

[thatnidguy]

Im not following you on how the raveners can have range of 24" with a charge and the Hgaunts wont, if they have the same skills. No one can charge after a RUN, all fleet does is just insure that Model can get there. ( re-roll )

I see what you mean with the tyrant, i was thinking you were giving him 2 sets of TL devourers. I wanna try to keep him up with the Hguants or the gargoyles for PE. Most likely i will run 2x2 thropes i like the DOM, but the one time i need it , its going to fail.

[madman37]

Raveners are Beasts, Hormagants are not.

[thatnidguy]

oh man, I have been using them as beasts. they were in 5th. i guess i have over looked that =( Sigh* that makes me super duper sad now. NOW.. i see why everone is doing the Tguant thing...

[thatnidguy]

@ illithid I am sorry about the arguement... I am going to rethink my list with raveners...

madman37 thank you for pointing that out i cant believe i over looked that. Its almost not worth running in my list now. unless i can try the Trygon tunnel or pod them.. they are just going to get picked off quick.

[Illithid]

Np mate, was just advising you back in 5th I was a huge Hormagaunt fan and would not play Tervigons as they did not fit my "idea" of a fast CC army. The game has changed immensely in 6th Ed. - especially in relation to how our units functions.

Take the Flyrant for example - if he has Iron Arm (Biomancy Psychic Power) and Endurance, the guy is much more of a CC beast than with Paroxysm. The Tervigons now also have the chance of being more powerful than a Trygon (Warp Speed + Crushing Claws combo can see them having 8+ attacks on the charge).

Hormagaunts are still good (they are my favourite model in fact), but my suggestion is do not put all your eggs into one basket.

[sunshine]

Aren't Beasts Fleet? I thought they were...

[Illithid]

Sept 25, 2012 23:46:30 GMT sunshine said:

Aren't Beasts Fleet? I thought they were...

Yes they are, but Hormagaunts are not beasts and were not in 5th ed either. Both Hormies and Raveners have fleet, but fleet has drasticaly changed.

[nidzy]

Hormagants were beasts in our 4th ed dex.

My suggestion for the list is to add in a second HQ. It is a huge bonus to not have your flyrant, who plays best aggressively in my opinion, be an exta victory point to your opponent. That way, you can fly him out as Illithid suggestion to kill a little squad, rhino or av10 vehicle early, hopefully getting first blood in the process. Then, your opponent will be forced to either kill him or cripple him before you are hitting his line in assault.

Then, you still get 5 attacks on the charge that hit almost everything on 3's, and most things you should be assaulting with him you will wound on 2's or 3's. I roll mine on biomancy at this point because a lucky endurance, warp speed or Iron Arm is better in my opinion than regular use of paroxysm (especially since the paroxyzed unit will likely be shooting at the tyrant hitting on 1's anyway, plus it doesn't work on vehicles).

[sunshine]

Ahhh I get what he meant there

[thatnidguy]

illithid , I see in the rule book that they do have Fleet.. I was looking at the dex...

And i Ment 4th ed Hguants were beasts...

The trygon can get 8 attacks as well as the tervigon, but for way less points. I might have to suck it up and join the niddy cookie cutter club.
and i am fuzzy on how to " sub the powers for biomancy" could PM meand explain a bit better for me =)

I think the bottom line is i am going to have to rework my army again. I dont want to 86 my guants they are awesome... I just liked them better when i thought they still were beasts =)