Help Returning to the Game after Years...

[riverzora]

Hi everyone. I used to 40k with 'nids quite seriously the better part of a decade ago, but then I hit uni and had to give it up for money's sake... but now I all grown up and employed and wanna get back into it. I've picked up the new codex (last time I played was third gen), and a lot has changed. It seems Tyrants and Carnifices have seriously nerfed points costs, and a bunch of new stuff... Quite like the look of 'nid primes, and it seems like Termagants' importance has been boosted by Tervigons existing, so I may have to swarm those (always was a Hormagaunt fan way more, but they're not as tasty with the new rules it seems).

Basically, I want some help working out what to resurrect/repaint from the old days, and what to start afresh with. I don't wanna buy new (apparently anagram of carp is a swearword? Gee, this filter is strict...) stuff if it's rubbish, but don't want an outdated army relying entirely on my old models.

So are there any units you'd suggest seriously avoiding due to nerfed-ness with the new rules, or any you would say are an absolute must?

'Nid Prime seems to be the best HQ option of what's currently available, unless you think a swarmlord is worth the ridonkulous points cost? Treat me as a noob, because I'm well out of date. I'm from when Warriors were Elites...

[General Chips]

The good ol days....

Still depends on your play style. A lot of the new units are quite useful, and your probably going to invest in them eventually if your serious about getting back into things. If youd like to run a third ed list with carnifexes, zoans, and lots of little guys you wont necessarily be screwed. But try out a Trygon, Hiveguard, or a Tervigon and I think you will enjoy the results.

Older units hmmm.....
Tyrants are still good, even if a little costy. Flying ones are fun, they have new rules that can get them 24 across the board and make them hard to hit.
Warrriors are kinda eh in most peoples opinion. They die to Str 8 weapons way too easy (Shadow does not grant eternal warrior), but you may be interested in their new variant, the Shrike.
Termagants are still good fodder, but they can gain abilities when properly supported by a Tervigon. Also podding 20 with devours into the enemies backlines is pretty fun too.
Hormagaunts are still fun, three attacks on the charge is pretty good, pair that with toxin sacs and somebody is going to die. But with overwatch in this edition (units being charged shoot at models coming at them [on sixes but still annoying]) they have been dying a bit easier in my experience.
Ravenors have the same story. Go down to Str 8 easy, dont have grenades so they hit at I1 if the enemy is in cover. Can be fun, but take skill to use.
Lictors suffer from the same problems. Can assault when they pop up, and dont have a great save. Try the deathleaper though - he can be a fun trick.
Genestealers are.... ugh I dont want to talk about them. I havent tried my 40+ stealer list yet so I cant say much but, they are not as good this edition. 5+ save, overwatch, and not being able to assault after they outflank hurt them pretty bad. A bonus is the Broodlord, which can take a psy power (some risk there however).
Carnifexes are pretty expensive. I loved them in 4th, and most people have been pretty harsh on them since. Cost too much, dont have acress to that crucial 2+ save, and slow as ever. A good option is 2Xtwin linked Devs podding in the enemies lines and being a pain in the ass.
Spore mines...who used those anyway?
Zoans are still pretty good. Take em in threes and either support up the board or pod in to hit a crucial target. Unfortunately Deny the Witch hurts them (anything gets a 6+ save from psychic shooting attacks, increases if they have a psyker) but they preform well for me. Its just tough when you try to hit a vehicle and you roll leadership, then to hit, deny the witch, then Armor pen, then damage table...but they can switch out their powers and serve other roles.
Rippers are rippers. they nom on legs, dont do much more. Some people try to use em, but you dont see them in serious tournament style lists.
Gargoyles are better this time around. Cheaper, PLASTIC, and get a cool little ability called hammer of wrath. I only use them to give cover saves to my big bugs, but some people have had sucess running them in 20 man squads.
Biovores are fun. The range is good ( for nids ) and you can put the hurt on Guard Equivalent armies as the blast is AP4.

Alright thats everything in the 3rd ed codex (I literally pulled it out) minus Old One Eye and the Red Terror. You dont see those guys at 6th ed parties.

While I wont do the same for all the new units (sorry gotta run), take some time considering the Tervigon, Hive Guard, and some of our other new toys. You will see LOTS of lists using HG and Tervs because they are pretty good, and each fill a crucial role in Nid lists. A 6 Wound MC as a troops choice? Hell yeah! The Prime like you mentioned is a solid, cheap HQ, and is fun to use with shooty warriors. Ygmarls are great for messing with your opponents back line (And they can move, and assault the turn they arrive). And yes, the Swarmlord is pretty beastly, but a lot of times you end up building your list around him. Try taking him with the Biomancy psy. discipline, I highly recommend it!

Overall your going to have a lot of fun, but not every game is going to be an auto win. Try out the new stuff, and see how it works with the old. There is lots of creativity to be had with the codex, and even though people can point out several "good" builds, you can use 90% and still be able to win games (sorry Pyrovore, we're trying).

And Welcome to the Hive

[ravengoescaw]

Welcome back. The Tyrant with wings 2x Devours, is a often used HQ or take it shelled. If you like FA armies (I mean the style not the FOC option) the I would go with a flyrant, which is our "best" AA unit. Though if you go flyrant I would take another HQ choice as your Warlord. I assume you have the 6th ed core book. The Tervigon and Trygon is the general Hive's favored MCs. The fexes value really got hur with Smash rules. Especially if you take a tervi, with Crushing Claws. (the extra attacks are added after you divide). There is no love for the pyrovore unfortunatly, because it is such a pretty model. But there is rumours of it getting an AA option. (I wouldn't hold your breath though.) In general what type of army did you play/want t play that will help us oint you in the right direction.

[riverzora]

I always used to swarm enough Melees into battle (horms) with super-armpured fexes taking the brunt with shoot the big ones... Bu neither horms nor fexes actually seem good anymore. Termagants I never particularly liked, but looks like they are a must now... Plus the tervigon is sweet.

Is a 'Nid Prime a better value HQ choice than the Tyrant? Are Tyrant Guards worth anything anymore? (I iss she bipedal barnacley shieldy whip ones..)

[ravengoescaw]

I would say hat a tyrant is a preferred hq option then a prime. If you take a walking tyrant or the swarmlord then tyrant guard is almost a must. Just for livability. Fexes are to expensive for what they do, to a purely number crunching type player. A Devfex in a pod is still an option it is one of the more debated things. A meleefex is not something I have heard anyone taking anymore. Hormis seem to have been relegated to the fluffy unit list. Which saddens me. With overwatch they just are not as scary as they used to be. Devgaunts are a bread and butter unit. A unit of devgaunts, paired with a tervigon make tervigon a troops choice which is BA. For a modern swarm army the most favored is a tevigon spam. Personally, if you want a total swarm army (this is expensive) I would say tervis and gaunts. You ca probably (not looking at my codex at the moment) get three tervis w/ CC, two psyker powers AG and TS and two 15 devigaunt units easy for 1000 pts. But keep in mind you want about 50ish gaunts per tervi. I would PM a few of the players that make the tervi spam list on how many they would say. Personally I only include tervi in my list 50% of the time. (Not because she isn't an awesome unit because she is, but because she is used so often that the tatics to use her are known better by my opponents then me. I try to have some surprise on my side of the table.)

[riverzora]

Do Shrikes count as Warriors? AKA, a they powered up by a Prime in the unit? Also, what's the best points-per-bang custom for a prime?

[ravengoescaw]

No they don't and you don't want to attach a prime to a shrike is that will slow them (the Shrikes) down. When I take a Prime I take him wih a death spiter Lash whip and bone sword (for those challenges) Toxin Sacs, then I an about 50-50 on regeneration. I put him with a squad of 5 warriors with deathspiters rending claws and toxin sacs.

[riverzora]

That sounds sweet... Yeah, I forgot I couldn't wing the Prime... Which is a shame!

So I'm thinking I need Tervigons for certain, I'm tempted to get a toxin-sac'd Genestealer brood with a lord in there, too. Haven't decided if I want to splash out on a mahoosive SwarmLord and guard, or simply run a couple of Primes for the same price. Will probably get some Hive Guards and new model Zoans though (I only have super-old bipedal model and an old style helmeted snake one missing his helmet which makes him look, ironically, more like a halmet).

Gonna change my flavour around for the new rules though- back in the day I put Scything talons on everything, double pairs on warriors and where they were allowed, and won on copious dice rolls. Melee doesn't seem quite as nice this time round unfortunately... So my Horms may have to be renegated to dust, but at least that means I can use all my unused Term sprues to make DevGaunts.

Hive Fleet Hydra will live again!... Also gonna change the colour scheme. My old ones were the scheme on the front of the 3rd ed codex: black chitin, red highlights, pink flesh with red stripe and blue detail. Gonna go more earthy and jungley this time. Think Kraken but green instead of red.

[ravengoescaw]

Cool post pics as you get them done. For melee bone swords, the rending claws are the weapons of the age now. But guns are the weapons of the age makes me a little sad inside....

[riverzora]

So here's the current thinking... It's a bit bitty, but has some semblance. Has two HQ options depending on if I want lots of variety or just one massive guy. Each is a 1500pointer though. Includes stuff I like/want, as well as some stuff that is actually useful.

I wan to model a Trygon Prime... Not as much as I want to mod a 6th gen red terror from the Mawloc kit, but competitively I want a Prime.

Hive Fleet Hydra

Set:
Elite:
Hive Guard x2 100pts
Troops:
Termagants x15 w/Devourers 150pts
Tervigon x1 w/Salvo,Claws,Adrenal,Toxin,Catalyst 220pts
Genestealers x10 w/Toxin,1Broodlord upgrade 216pts
Heavy:
Trygon Prime x1 w/Toxin 250pts
Biovore x2 90pts
Fast:
Gargoyle x10 w/Adrenal 70pts

TOTAL: 1096pts

Option1:
HQ:
Swarmlord x1 280pts
Tyrant Guard x2 120pts

Option2:
HQ:
Tyranid Prime w/Whip,Sword,Regen,Toxin,DeathSpitter 120pts
Elites:
Zoanthrope x2 120pts
Troops:
Tyranid Warriors x3 w/Whip,Sword,1VenomCannon,Toxin 150pts
+1DevourTermagant 10pts


GRANDTOTAL: 1496pts


Any serious dilemmas or issues with easy fixes? Suggest away! Thanks for the help so far.

[ravengoescaw]

Personally and this really is a personal flavor thing. If I take a Prime then I make sure he has a warrior unit to attach too, if I take two then two warrior units. You can attach then t over units like fex squads I have heard mentioned. But to me it just seems silly, here is why: One they have an ability that makes the warriors better just by him being attched. Two LOS shinaigans make the warrior squad more surviveable with him leading the charge. Finally Three it just looks silly to me having a super warrir attached to the tank unit or any other unit. If you go this route I would recamend you do it in 5 man squads. That is how I run them with reasonable sucess.

[riverzora]

Right, I've decided I'm getting a Swarmlord because it's just too pretty... Which means some Tyrant guards are a must. I've got this idea for a really bestial pose for the Lord with only minor conversion required (some neck extension so it can actually raise its head beyond the hunchback), so looking forward to that.

Undecided on the rest. Do I get another HQ with a Prime and Warriors, or do I splash out on some Biovores? Ideas welcomed.

[ravengoescaw]

In general the competitive hive prefer biovores to warriors..... personally I prefer warriors. So I would go warriors and prime. Swarmlord with three tyrant guard as your warlord.

[riverzora]

The only thing I have against warriors is that these are the exact same models I paid fifteen pound for three for seven years ago, and now they're thirty for three. That's doubling orice in seven years. That is ridonkulous. At least the other increases include new models or at the least new bitz- warriors put me off there and then. If I can recover some of my old ones, I'll see what I can do. I still have some spindly-legged old-old biovores I quite like

[blind[tyrant]guardian]

Also, you probably want a squad of 8 ymgarl genestealers instead of the regular ones w/ the broodlord. they will deal more damage, are tougher, and cost less (you only need one box of 8 rather than 2 of them). also, if you have 2 termagant units, you can field 2 tervigon troops choices!