Objuration Mechanicum

[Soluncreed]

I just came across a thread on warseer and people were wondering whether or no you get a cover save (specifically jink for flyers) for OM. I'm curious about this too because I'd really like to try this power out.

They decided that they think you do, but that it is really dumb if you can.

Here's the thread: www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?346785-Objuration-Mechanicum

[infornography]

OM is not a shooting attack, there is no save.

*edit* upon reading the majority of that thread. I will clarify.

Evade requires a to hit roll, therefore you cannot evade unless there was an attack roll made. Since you don't roll to hit with maledictions you do not get to roll jink vs it.

[Jabberwocky]

Though the vehicle does 'suffer a glancing or penetrating hit', so I can see why they argue it.

[swarmy]

Oh wow...it's something like an EMP causing catastrophic malfunctions...dodge it with ace piloting skillz, go on rules lawyers.

[rpricew]

I'm not arguing for a jink save, but what makes it different, rule wise, from cover from spirit leech?

[l0rdf1end]

The thing is, Spirit Leech or Psychic Shriek clearly informs you about what saves are available. Objuration Mechanicum does not so we must presume all types of saves are available. It might be a mealdiction but the end result is a Haywire hit which says to me they get a save.

[tinytermagant]

After reading the warseer discussion i believe it's RAW to allow cover saves against the Haywire part of OM.
As OM fanboy #1 this hurts

[WestRider]

If you want to get really strict on the RAW, they can only choose to Evade after you've rolled To Hit. OM doesn't roll To Hit, it simply automatically takes effect, so no Evasion, and thus no Jink Save. The same argument applies to Vector Strikes.

Skimmers could more plausibly get the Jink Save, since it's automatic as long as they moved in their last Movement Phase, but Flyers have to perform an action with a specific trigger (a Roll To Hit), so no dice.

[infornography]

Fast skimmers that have moved would RAW get a jink save.

Probably flyers in a KFF would get a save as well.

Flyers do not get a jink save because they are not allowed to evade it.

[DarkGuard]

Jink is against shooting, OM is a malediction. Also, don't fliers get Deny the Witch anyway? Can't remember off the top of my head.

[infornography]

They do get deny the witch, the question was if they also get jink, which they don't, but it looks like fast skimmers might.

[WestRider]

Note also that all Skimmers have Jink as a standard Special Rule, not just Fast Skimmers.

Yes, even Monoliths. Have fun picturing that one

[gloomfang]

Fighting on that thread right now. Not sure how being in a bush stops an EMP attack, but whatever. I will have to use that line on Evade though. Still looks like Area Terrain and Jink might still give the save.

EDIT: Opps I'm fighting in the Dakka Thread, not Warseer.
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474153.page

[Raven]

My logic:
1. You can only take cover saves against shooting attacks
2.1. Objuration Mechanicum is a malediction
2. Objuration Mechanicum is not a shooting attack
C. You cannot take cover saves against Objuration Mechanicum

[infornography]

I don't think you can take any terrain based cover saves because there is no origin point for the attack because there was no attack. The target just suffers a hit.

I think RAW you can take granted cover saves such as with jink or KFF or spore cloud, but only if those have a way to have been granted. Cover saves from terrain however are given by TLOS which does not apply in this case because no attack caused the hit.