Swarmlord 1750pts

[DarkGuard]

Hi there. So 6th Ed has been out for a bit, and I've found myself chopping and changing things from my last list. The last list's idea was to focus on Tyranid psykers, so I reincluded my Zoanthropes. However, some bad psychic power rolls later, and little impact garnered from them, I've dropped them for more Hive Guard and Ymgarls, and focussing on Swarmlord again with psychic powers added on top. So this is the new list:

HQ
Swarmlord = 280
2x Tyrant Guard w/ lash whips = 130

Elites
2x Hive Guard = 100
2x Hive Guard = 100
8x Ymgarls = 184

Troops
5x Genestealers w/ toxin sacs, Broodlord w/ toxin sacs, scything talons = 150
5x Genestealers w/ toxin sacs, Broodlord w/ toxin sacs, scything talons = 150
27x Hormagaunts w/ toxin sacs = 216
10x Termagants = 50
Tervigon w/ scything talons, toxin sacs, Catalyst = 190

Heavy Support
Trygon = 200

Total = 1750pts

Yes, I know that most people think Gargoyles are better than Hormagaunts. But at the moment I'm focussing on Hormagaunts. I also only have 20 Gargoyles, so I couldn't do a straight swap. I like the Hormagaunts can claim cover a little easier, aren't as imperilled by it, have more base attacks, a higher initiative, re-rolls to hit on 1s standard, and a better IB incase all my synapse breaks down. I've also got more bodies in the brood, which is a good thing.

Now the main idea here is to the get BGB powers on all psykers except the Tervigon, who'll stay with the Codex powers so I always have a FnP giving power. This ensures my Swarmlord death star type unit will always have FnP, and then if I'm lucky I could give it to other units if one of my Broodlords or Swarmlord rolls it. The Genestealers infiltrate into good positions, and act as disruption, along with the Ymgarls who attack out of reserve. I was finding 6 to be too fragile, so I'm glad I've found the points to add more. I have my 2x2 units of Hive Guard, which will help against pretty much most things in the game.

The one inclusion I'm not sure about is the Trygon. It adds saturation to my MCs and other T6 monsters, while being a great vanguard unit as well due to its speed and the fact it doesn't really care about overwatch. It also rips through most units easily as well as tanks. However, I can't help but feel that two units of 3 Ravs with rending claws could fit the list better. They could flank Swarmlord, protecting it, and then move off quickly to engage far away targets if need be. At a higher points level it'd be nice to have both though. What do you guys think?

[Jabberwocky]

I like it. If you do roll 2+ endurance, you can always then swap Terv powers for biomancy or telekinesis to pull out some more tricks.

I've found rapid fire changes have made my little guys really fragile so just keep those MCs pushed to the front, leading the assault. Not just in overwatch but their full shooting phase.

[DarkGuard]

Cheers for the advise Jabberwocky, for some reason I never thought about that with the Tervigon...

And so use the Trygon and Swarmlord to screen the Hormagaunts, rather than the other way around? I've found the little guys to be even more fragile as well, but I've been approaching games on the idea that as long as my Broodlords and MCs hit the opponent's lines I have a good chance of winning.

[Jabberwocky]

With the Swarmlord at T7+ with FnP, he'll shrug off most rapid fire weapons I find. It depends what your opponents use against you though I guess.

[DarkGuard]

Fair enough, good point. So you reckon Trygon instead of Ravs.

[Jabberwocky]

I *want* to promote ravs because I want to try them out myself but the way my meta is filling up with bolters, I honestly can't stomach it...yet.

By all means though try them out and let me know. They should be brutal when raging and are so fast now they ignore terrain.

[DarkGuard]

I've tried them out once. They're quick, but if they get hit in Overwatch they will lose wounds. So they're still not that durable. Damage output of course is the same, but more units are outside their tin cans now so they have more targets. A good shock unit I reckon, or a good problem solver due to speed, but you do have to be careful about what you assault and fire lanes. Simply speaking, the Trygon IMO is a little easier to use and more durable.

[xenobidion]

Hey! I have made a video on the swarm lord, I hope it might help
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSJOvrhmNQk&feature=plcp

[DarkGuard]

OK, so I had a brain wave when reading the Gargoyle screen thread in general, I could fit some Gargoyles in, alongside my Hormagaunts!!

So, the idea here is to drop the amount of Hormagaunts to 20, and then try and squeeze in as many Gargoyles with toxin sacs as I can. The end product is that I get 15 of those Gargoyles in, who can create another screen, while adding a bit more speed to the list and enabling me to attack from multiple angles. Here's the list:

HQ
Swarmlord = 280
2x Tyrant Guard w/ lash whips = 130

Elites
2x Hive Guard = 100
2x Hive Guard = 100
6x Ymgarls = 138

Troops
5x Genestealers w/ toxin sacs, Broodlord w/ toxin sacs, scything talons = 150
5x Genestealers w/ toxin sacs, Broodlord w/ toxin sacs, scything talons = 150
20x Hormagaunts w/ toxin sacs = 160
10x Termagants = 50
Tervigon w/ toxin sacs, Catalyst = 185

Fast Attack
15x Gargoyles w/ toxin sacs = 105

Heavy Support
Trygon = 200

Total = 1748pts

So I miss out on 2pts, which I'm not too fussed about. I lose some Hormagaunts and a couple of Ymgarls (which is the biggest loss, but I strictly speaking didn't have models for them anyway) and gain 15 Gargoyles. So in total I've added another 6 models, which could make a difference. I've also added another unit that can screen something else and provide a threat etc, and with Swarmlord's synapse range it shouldn't be too hard to keep them in range.

I think it looks stronger to be honest, but we'll have to see.

The other idea I had was to replace the Termagants and Tervigon with two 3 strong Warrior broods with deathspitters and barbed stranglers. Gives me a few points left that'll add Gargoyle and toxin sacs to the Trygon, giving me a round 1750pts. It's attractive to me because I don't like Tervigons too much in general, but I play them because I recognise they fit very well with my list and are great for backfield scoring. But this option would give me a little more ranged firepower, and greater synapse coverage while still letting me sit on a couple of objectives in backfield/midfield. I'm near enough guaranteed to get Endurance on Swarmlord, and could roll it on the Broodlords, so I wouldn't be lacking there. Something to think about I guess, here's the list for that:

HQ
Swarmlord = 280
2x Tyrant Guard w/ lash whips = 130

Elites
2x Hive Guard = 100
2x Hive Guard = 100
6x Ymgarls = 138

Troops
5x Genestealers w/ toxin sacs, Broodlord w/ toxin sacs, scything talons = 150
5x Genestealers w/ toxin sacs, Broodlord w/ toxin sacs, scything talons = 150
20x Hormagaunts w/ toxin sacs = 160
3x Warriors w/ 2x deathspitters, 1x barbed strangler = 110
3x Warriors w/ 2x deathspitters, 1x barbed strangler = 110

Fast Attack
16x Gargoyles w/ toxin sacs = 112

Heavy Support
Trygon w/ toxin sacs = 210

Total = 1750pts

Yeah I know, probably not as good as the Tervigon one because of no Catalyst, spawning more scoring units, and instant death vulnerability. But I wanted to have a play about, and it looked intriguing, so there's another idea.

So two lists there, I'll probably use the first one first, but the second is always a possibility. Let me know what you think guys.

[Jabberwocky]

First looks stronger conventionally speaking but I do think the warrior one has merit. Any S8 aiming at your warriors who WILL be sat in cover, isn't touching your Trygon and Swarmlord. How do you feel about holding back the stealers to claim objectives when needs be though? I think you are more likely to need them in this list with few scoring units.

[DarkGuard]

I'm glad you like them both, especially the second list. I'm just not sure about Tervigons. I want to make lists that work without them, but the competitive part of me keeps coming back to them. The main thing IMO about the first list compared to the second is bodies. I've got more bodies starting, and can make more, thereby swarming my opponent. That and Catalyst is something I don't get from the second. But IMO the second has great firepower through the barbed stranglers and deathspitters (when closed), combat ability similar IMO. The interesting thing is that the second list gives me a greater synapse coverage. I don't think I'll need it as much, but it's an interesting point.

With the second list I agree I may have to be more conservative with the Stealer broods. Hopefully I'll roll a couple of useful 24" powers and can sit them in midfield then.

The thing I like about these lists in general though is the Gargoyles alongside the Hormagaunts. I can run the Gargoyles as a first screen, the Hormagaunts behind Swarmlord then, to preserve their punch. Or I can reverse them, or use the Gargoyles as a flanking force with the Trygon (shame he isn't a Prime). With the Tervigon variant I have more flexibility with my screens, which is a good idea.

Hopefully I'll get a game or two with these variants next week, I'll let you know how they go when I do.

Interested though, which do you prefer? I can't remember if you're a proponent of the Tervigon or not.

EDIT: I'm also thinking of using adrenal glands on the Gargoyles instead of toxin sacs. I know I prefer toxin sacs, but with adrenal glands they can glance AV10 to death, which could be handy.

[Jabberwocky]

I don't run the Terv any more but I'm well aware it's probably our best (top 3 at worst) unit in the codex. It's just too big for practical transport for me!

I think you said it yourself, when you need that S4 ol Swarmy can grant furious charge. Do you see yourself hitting vehicles with both those units in the same turn? I wouldn't have thought so.

[DarkGuard]

Well transporting the Tervigon isn't a problem issue for me, so guess I don't have an excuse .

With the Gargoyles, it may be handy not having to give them Furious Charge through Swarmlord, so someone else can. I can't see myself charging vehicles loads, but it'll be nice to have that option. Most of the Gargoyles damage will come from Blinding Venom anyway, perhaps with Preferred Enemy as well.